Dr Lauren Deville Interviews Linda Elsegood talking about Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN)

Welcome back to another episode of Christian  Natural Health today. I'm very excited to have  Linda Elsegood with us. Linda is the founder of the UK charity LDN Research Trust established in 2004. She has multiple sclerosis, and Low  Dose Naltrexone, LDN, significantly impacted her life. She wanted to help other people not only with MS but also all autoimmune diseases,  cancers, mental health issues, etc. In the last 18 years the charity has helped  

over a million people worldwide. Welcome  Linda. Thank you so much for being with us.  Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here  with you today. Yeah, good for you for taking what you learned and turning it around to see what you could do to you know spread the knowledge and help other people. That's absolutely fantastic.  I love that. Thank you. Yah so can you tell us a  little bit about how LDN, from the research that you've done and you, 've written bunches of  books. Now, what is it three? You've got another one that's about to come out soon. Yes. Yeah. So uh tell us a little bit about Low Dose Naltrexone.  How does it work pharmacologically and what is it  

that makes it kind of so useful across a broad spectrum of possible things, possibly. Okay, well briefly, it interrupts the homeostasis in the brain. The brain's a reward system which makes your body produce more endorphins, which is  your body's own natural painkiller and feel  good factor. It also works on the toll-like  receptors which Dr. Rachel Allen did a  presentation and she said it really well and I  can't forget her presentation. It was like an  army of soldiers with guns you go your toll like  receptors target inflammation to reduce the inflammation. And so many people with autoimmune  diseases have high levels of inflammation and  

by reducing the inflammation they're a lot  better So LDN works on that as well. So it's a  non-toxic drug. It's it was trial back in the  19 late 1970s and it was only found harmful in  doses of 300 milligrams a day for addiction. Yeah  so for addiction it's used  150 milligrams a  day. They usually have 50 milligram tablets, three  times a day. Okay so you can see that is only half  of the harmful dose and we're talking you know  maybe half a milligram up to 4.5, it can go either  side of that but that is the general window.  So it's a very very low dose. Great. People  the only thing that you have to be really  really careful with that is if you are on  opioid medication especially slow release  opioids you can go into opioid withdrawal.  Which one lady actually did. She went  to the doctors and private doc. Didn't  disclose that she was on any opioid pain  medication. She was asked and she said  

no I no don't take any painkillers. And  she was on morphine and Fentanyl patches.  And she ended up in ICU because she had terrible  withdrawal. So it's always and some people  think that you don't always need a doctor to  help you, which is a really big mistake, to  wean yourself off of opioids. Which I mean should  only be done under supervision. And certainly not  putting LDN in the mix. Right. If you're still on  opioids that's a really big red flag and I would  hate to see anybody have to go through that. Sure  yeah. Absolutely. But one of the things that I  love about LDN is because unlike traditional  pharmaceuticals where you're suppressing  something, this one is almost homeopathic in the  way that it works. Where you're giving the body  your  you have the primary effect which is the  blockade of those endorphin receptors but then the  secondary effect of overproduction is what you're  actually after. And that's what ends up kind of  having that longer term effect. So I think that's one of the reasons why I don't really shy  away from this when nearly as much as I do with  using other types of pharmaceuticals. That's  really cool. But people will say so how long do I  have to take LDN. You take it for as long as you  want it to work. Yeah and they said what about  the accumulative effect. Well it's only in the  body for four hours so every day you're getting  a 20 hour break. You know it and you can just  stop taking it if you want to, uh if you're going  to have surgery, if you take it stop taking it a  couple of days before you know it's completely out  of your system and you should be fine. But there  are some really really good videos on our website  which explains how LDN works. What it does.  They're all there for people to go and have  a look and dig deeper, do their own research  is always a good idea. Sure, absolutely. Well  and in my clinical experience one of the ways  that I've sometimes used it now certainly with  autoimmunity you do kind of have to continue it  from what I've seen in order to continue to have  the benefits from it. Unless you can find  and remove the underlying issue and then possibly  you can take people off. But sometimes from like  a never-well sense kind of a scenario I will  like never well since for example long COVID  I often will use LDN as a reset button for  that and sometimes people only need it for  a very brief window and then they can get off  and kind of move go about their business is  

that something that's in the literature at  all or is that just something I've done.  Yes, it is yeah and COVID is a really  hot topic obviously right now and in the  new book that's coming out there are actually  two chapters, one specifically on long COVID  and the other one is about fiery damaged  tissues which explains about  COVID. Really  really interesting. I mean anybody who is wanting  to prevent COVID or treat COVID while you've got  

it and then the long COVID. And you are so right.  There are so many people that are taking LDN and  sometimes once they're fine they can stop  taking it when they've got a long COVID. But it  makes me smile because healthy people who haven't  been around sick people who have had uh CFS, ME,  even MS. I mean I had chronic fatigue,  fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue. So many healthy  people who have got long COVID think that they're  the first group of people that have had chronic  fatigue who haven't been aware, yes, exactly  who haven't been aware that it's been around  but forever. But I honestly feel that with all the  research that has gone into long COVID and how LDN  is being used I'm sure that's going to springboard  it further.  Professor Angus Dalgleishand  he's one of the top oncologists in the UK and  he's written a chapter on long COVID and he's  done a promotional video and he says I do not know  why LDN isn't used as a first line treatment. You  know he is so for LDN, he's witnessed what it's  done for people. Yeah that's awesome. So backing  up a little bit  yeah how is it that like  with autoimmune conditions which is kind of like the the earliest Research into LDN was  mostly for autoimmunity correct? Yes. Oh okay,  so how exactly does LDN and the endorphins and  the toll-like receptors go about modulating  the immune system? Is it just because  we're not suppressing inflammation in the same  way that we would with steroids so is  how  is this modulation achieved? Can you explain?

Dr. Ian Saigon and Dr. Chris Patricia  McLaughlin have been doing studies and trials  since the late 1970s.  they've done hundreds and  hundreds all the papers are out there on PubMed.  And  Dr. Ian Saigon always says that LDN  helps regulate the dysfunctioning immune system.  So what he means by that is it helps to fix  whatever has stopped it from working correctly,  to put it back you know as near as possible.  And he can back that up with all these   trials and studies that he's done. So a lot  of people think that it boosts the immune system  but regulating it I think is a far better way of  putting it. Right and I like that more because  obviously your body everything works together in  this intricate system and as soon as you start  to hit one thing with this sledgehammer five  other things break. So if you're modulating  and working with it you're not going to end up  with side effects the same way that you do not  typically and not nearly as many anyway. So as far  as pain so uh it's the LDN has been used for a lot  of types of chronic pain. What kind of thing  responds best and why does it work for that?  It actually works for all kinds of pain. Obviously  it depends on how long you've had the pain  

and getting the right dose. For example, we made  a documentary on pain and opioids and that is  also on the website. Really really interesting  and we interviewed a pain specialist. So we're  talking about chronic pain, complex regional  pain syndrome, fibromyalgia, neuropathic pain.  Um so across the board any type of  pain LDN can help with. I mean going to  um you know really bad pins and needles. Numbness,  all the different pains that you can have it can  actually help but again at the moment most people  who end up seeing a pain specialist have been  through maybe eight or nine different doctors.  They've tried absolutely everything and the pain  

specialist is the last person they see and they're  just about ready to give up. The sad thing is I  met a lot of these patients who were taking LDN  for pain when we did the documentary. Dr. Samuel  Dev Data said to me, "I don't want you just to  hear from me at how well it works and I want you  to meet the patients who take LDN for pain." And  their stories were amazing. These people were in  tears telling me their stories how you know  they'd been on pain medication for 20 years.  They were hooked on the opioids. They couldn't  come off. The opioids are making them feel ill.  They weren't getting pain relief They were still  on a nine or a ten every day and there was nothing  

they could do. And one lady she was a  nurse and she had pain I think 15 years.  I'm a bit fuzzy with with the time. I think  it was 15 years. Anyway, she was on these  opioids and using ultra low dose, now we're  talking .001 very very minuscule and by taking  such a small amount alongside of the opioids,  the opioids became more effective. So. Yeah. What  they were able to do was titrate the opioids down  whilst titrating the LDN up. Getting the patients  off the opioids onto Low Dose Naltrexone, not  the ultra low dose. Right. And the results were  

we had some patients that were pain-free. We had  was that the pain was a three or a four but they'd  lived with chronic pain for so long that they  were really happy It didn't stop them from living  their lives and doing what they wanted to do. And  others, the pain was still bothersome. I wouldn't  say you know it was nowhere near as high as it was  but it was quite a mixed bag. But these stories  were just amazing from these people. Really really  amazing. Its awesome. So as you're talking about  the ultra low dose I actually have a lot of really  hypersensitive patients and there's many of them  where I can't give them even like 0.5 milligrams  of LDN and typically in order to because they'll  get the primary effect not the secondary. Uh  so I will often have them open the capsules and  

take a pinch and then we'll kind of increase from  there and they'll still get the same effect that a  different patient would get from 4.5 milligrams  or one milligram . So it's interesting that you  do have to titrate in order to find exactly the  right dose. Exactly and it's not something like  paracetamol take two, four times a day. It  is really a case of finding out the right  dose for you and nobody can tell you what that  right dose is going to be. But by starting low  and titrating slowly the chances of getting side  effects are minimal. Exactly. You know even if you  

are ultra sensitive. But there are a few people  that really do have to take it very very slowly.  I definitely have a lot of those. So speaking of  those kinds of people for those who have lots of  immune tolerance issues, food sensitivities,  autoimmunity would certainly play into that  as well, the leaky gut, leaky brain kind of a  component how does LDN asset assist with restoring  immune tolerance? Okay well LDN does cross the blame brain blood barrier. I haven't been  drinking either and there are some really  good  past conference presentations that go into  that from LDN experts. So I wouldn't want to  get into that myself if that's okay with you.  No problem. Yep yeah. Thank you. Yeah . Okay.  So  and then there's also I've often lately  I've been using the LDN more for people who have  bowel transit issues but it's interesting again  modulation. It seems to play both sides  of the fence when people have difficulty  with diarrhea or when they have difficulty  with constipation It seems to kind of hit a  reset button. So that's something that  the literature is born out as well, right. Yes   Dr.Jared Younger had a paper printed  which is on PubMed. Very very good  paper as Jill Smith had a paper published on  Crohn's disease, which was also well she had  two actually one on pediatrics and one on adults  which explained what they did during the trials.But it certainly does wonders for the bowel.  Helps as you said reset it. But if there are  underlying problems  like SIBO. Right.  I mean LDN works really well for SIBO,  but you've got to treat the SIBO. Same as  celiac disease. If you continue eating junk  food you know your guts aren't going to be healthy  as they should be. So many people say you know why  is it important not to eat gluten and dairy, but  there are studies that show that people can be  intolerant to those things and it just exacerbates  it and makes the inflammation far worse. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well it's difficult. LDN does  a lot but it can't you've got to work with it.  You've got to help it not fight against  it. It's not the magic pill that you can  sit and be a couch potato and not exercise, eat  the wrong food and expect LDN is hey gonna fix  you. Sure, Yeah. Absolutely. And often I will  use it in that way , where we're using that as  like a reset button while we're fixing what's  underneath. And then we can take it away later  hopefully once we've found and removed the  obstacle to cure and then done cleanup. Then  in many cases people don't need to stay on  it long term. So that's definitely but it's a  fantastic tool in order to kind of interrupt  a bad cycle essentially. So that's awesome.  So you mentioned I believe it's in I can't  remember if it was your first or your second book  on how LDN affects brain derived neurotropic  factor levels. What are some of the potential  like therapeutic implications of that? Can  you talk a little bit about what that BDNF is?  Right I had some notes here on  that just one second. Okay, sure. Okay so theoretically LDN may be able to reduce  the BDNF levels with possible  therapeutic areas from addition  to wide-ranging psychiatric disorders. The  current published research is on animals and there is still a lot more work to be done. Okay.  And so can you tell us a little bit about  the research into LDN with PTSD and dissociation  that's an interest that was a fascinating  set of factors. Yeah that is totally amazing.   Galen Forest and older Dr. Ulrich Blainus do  some amazing presentations on PTSD. Now the dosing  for that can be different. sometimes they  use it twice a day, sometimes they use it three  times a day But the results they've had have  been absolutely amazing and there was a study  carried out which showed 11 out of  15 patients who had PTSD saw immediate  benefits. I mean that is unbelievably high  isn't it? And Dr. Wickbook Pap  she's  from Germany and she works in a psychiatric  hospital and she works with dissociative syndrome so these people are in a really really  bad place. And she's been working with them using  LDN and has managed. to calm that down. I mean  it's a very complex condition to deal with and  she had a paper published on her results.  So I mean it's totally totally amazing. So  getting away from the autoimmune,  the pain, the mental health issues,   and the PTSD is not just war veterans. You  know, it's  domestic violence, children who  have been bullied, rapes and the list goes on.  I mean this is such a good tool for all of those  things. But it's also used in fertility  clinics to help women get pregnant. So that's  a different topic you know there are so many  things and people will say, "oh well you know it  must be snake oil because not one thing can work  for so many different conditions. " Sure, yeah.  But most of these conditions the common  denominator going back to what I said  before is inflammation. Exactly. Now you have  good inflammation and bad inflammation. The  good you need to help fight off viruses and bacteria in the body. So that's fine. But it's  the bad inflammation that LDN targets to get rid  of those toll-like receptors. Yeah absolutely. So   and a lot of times I'll have people come to me  who will say inflammation is my it is like always  a bad thing and I'm glad you brought that up that  your body has mechanisms for inflammation for a  reason. They are there so you could fight out  before an invader but if you lose, if your body  loses, and then that cycle perpetuates that's when  you end up with chronic illness. So absolutely  this is that that can be an underlying issue for  so many different kind of ques diseases. Right.  So as you kind of alluded to this uh but any  other chapters that you're really excited about  in the upcoming book for New Uses for LDN.  Yes apart from the COVID and the long COVID,  the fiery damaged tissues includes other  viruses. So  the herpes viruses, one and two,   Epstein-Barr virus,  now I can't  remember but there were several different. Yes but you can treat with LDN and then we've  got longevity which I mean is a huge thing   yeah. Drug resistant depression. Oh  interesting. Yeah it's good. Cancer case  studies, they're always a really good one  to people are never fed up with those.  Right. So and the parvo virus as well. Mixed connective tissue disease.  We've got a chapter on old off ophthalmic eye  conditions. Okay, I'm not going to get it out.   also yeah a mold illness and CRIS. So Dr. Kent  Holthoff wrote that chapter and he has been using  peptides and LDN and managing to heal people from  mold, quickly, effectively and they feel so much  better. So what he did he took his chapter and  then put it to one side and said I don't like the  protocol. I'm going to write a brand new protocol.  So this book is the first book where he's actually  shown this new protocol for treating mold. I'm so  excited. Yes. So that is hot off the press really  really  something right very new and we've got  the updated dosing protocol because there are  so many people that still think you can only  take it at night. That's old news. And so  many doctors prescribe it in the morning and  people can then try to take it in the evening  but if you have sleep disturbance or vivid  dreams you can take it in the morning. It  doesn't make any difference and it goes into  dosing for mental health, autoimmune, pain,  etc, etc. And at the beginning book as always,  we've got the pharmacology and best practices. So things change over time. You know the first  book was six years ago and we have updated  information in there. So all in all  it's a very good book. The first book  was I don't think around about 210 pages. The  second book was like 280 pages and this book  is 316. There's just more coming out that's  awesome. I know but I'm I can't have it the  next book any longer. It's right. We've hit  a threshold. Yes, I can't 300 was meant to  be the limit and we went over because there are  hundreds of references and studies in the book.  

Fantastic. So I mean all these authors when they  say something they back it up. You know prove  that what they're saying is right. Right. Yes. So  it's a really good starting point for people who  are interested in LDN or prescribing LDN and for  patients that have any of those conditions. Yeah.  But they want more information. So when does the  book come out? Third one. The launch is on the  10th of November and I'm doing a book signing at  Solutions Pharmacy in Chattanooga in Tennessee.  Okay they're going to have a big open house and  things in the evening. So that's going to be an  all-day thing that's going to be good. But we're  getting other doctors and pharmacists around to  take part on that day. So look out for the book.  Yeah so we're doing a pre-order right now okay so  if you go to the website if you want to wholesale  it there is up to a 60 discount. But on a single  book we're giving a five percent discount and free  shipping if you order before September the first.  Awesome, can you say what your website is? I'll  also include it in the yeah but what is it? It's www.ldnresearchtrust.org and the page got it now  if you look under resources and then LDN books  you'll see everything about the book on there but  it's LDN research for us dot org forward slash LDN  hyphen book hyphen free. Fantastic. Sounds great.  So anything I haven't asked you that you want  to make sure that you leave with our audience.  Well I'd like to just say our caveat  because we  are a charity and we have to follow rules but LDN isn't a miracle drug or a cure and it doesn't work  for everyone but I think we covered that. Yeah  but it's always good to throw it out there to make  sure for sure. But I would also say  I don't know  how much time we have left but there are people  who think that it's okay to buy LDN online without  a prescription. It's a prescription only drug and  when you buy a prescription medication that has  no quality control checks, there's  no way of knowing what it is and how  NHRA which is our medicines regulatory body say  that they confiscate drugs as they come into the  country and 85 percent are counterfeit Most  of them are harmless, they've got nothing in  there but some of them have lethal ingredients.  So you're playing Russian roulette so it's not a  good idea to do that. You could end up killing  yourself always get a prescription and take it to  a reputable pharmacy to have your prescription  filled. Fantastic. Yeah. Good to know for sure. There are several different forms. How much time  have we got left? Whatever you go for it. But there are several forms that you can have LDN in  now I mean years ago it was just capsules. But you could have capsules, you can have gummy bears, you  can have chokies, cream. Okay. Topical solution,  tablets, all of the above Well I mean I guess if  you're doing compounding why not. You can do any  of the above. I always end up compounding it  in capsules but I've seen it in liquid. I just  didn't know it had all those other possibilities.  But sure I don't see why not. Very cool. Pets, there are quite a few vets that are using LDN.  Also children. I mean the first thing that people  think of is  autism which is  usually  they put a cream on the child at bedtime.  But there is also pediatric Crohn's, pediatric  arthritis. I mean children still have lots of  autoimmune problems and of course cancer is the big one. An LDN can work really well  as I was saying about Professor Angus Dalgleish,  he's from a hospital called St. George's in London  and he did a study with Dr. Wayne Lou and they  found that LDN can actually cause Zelda so it can  kill the cancer so that was a big one and they had  that paper published in 2016. Oh awesome. That's  amazing. Definitely look out for the cancer  chapters in the upcoming book. That's great.  Okay. Well thank you so much Linda for all of your  time and expertise and thank you for creating this  wonderful charity that's so awesome that you're  spreading the word. Okay. Well thank you very  much for having invited me. Are you looking for  a holistically minded healthcare practitioner  who truly treats root cause rather than symptom  suppression? Unfortunately even in the alternative  healing professions this isn't a given that's  why I've created wholehealthdoctor.com a  resource to help connect patients to health  care practitioners in their area who share a  root cause philosophy. Alternatively most of the  practitioners listed also practice Telehealth so  if there isn't anyone local to you you can  still find a great practitioner to help you  regain optimal health. Go to wholehealthdoctor.com  that's whole healthdr.com. Type in your location  or adjust the specialty that you're looking for  and find the practitioner who's right for you.