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Radio Show interviews, and Presentations from the LDN 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 Conferences

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Do you have LDN Experience you would like to share? (LDN; low dose naltrexone)

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Kate was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at age 7. Her diabetes and insulin needs were not changed on LDN. After treatment for Lyme disease with antibiotics and herbals, LDN gave Kate relief of her remaining symptoms. Finding LDN was like the magic bullet. Her Hashimoto's antibodies went up on LDN when the dose was too high. She is still working to find the right dose for her Hashimoto's symptoms, with headaches being her main side effect of a too-high dose.



Kay - US: Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and fibromyalgia (LDN; low dose naltrexone)



Asher Goldstein, MD - His experience with LDN as a Pain Specialist; LDN Radio Show 2022. (LDN; low dose naltrexone)



Cheri Garvin, RPh - Her experience with LDN; LDN Radio Show 2022 (LDN; low dose naltrexone)



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Linda Elsegood: Welcome to the LDN radio show brought to you by the LDN Research Trust I'm your host, Linda Elsegood. I have an exciting lineup of guest speakers who are LDN experts in their field. We will be discussing low-dose naltrexone and its many uses in autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. Thank you for joining us.

Today we're joined by Kara from the United States who uses LDN for Multiple Sclerosis. Thank you for joining us today, Kara. 

Kara: Thank you for having me. 

Linda Elsegood: Can you tell us how far back was it when you first noticed an MS symptom, even if you didn't know it was a symptom? 

Kara: Oh my goodness, probably when I was first at university, my first little episodes began. I had UTIs that no one could explain why I kept getting them, and couldn't really get rid of them ever. And I had some issues with some muscle spasms, but very minor things. And then 11 years ago this month I had an episode of trigeminal neuralgia. I was driving; I had a brand-new car. It was my first day driving my brand-new car and I had taken my children to school and I was on my way to work, and I had to pull off on the side of the road because I almost passed out from the pain. I don't even know what I thought. I thought I had a tooth abscess or I thought maybe it was like a heart attack because I feel like women don't pay attention to those things and it can be jaw pain. So all this is going through my head, and I went to the ER, and they said there's nothing. It's not a cardiac issue. It's not this. It's not that. We don't know what it is. I saw a dentist the next day who thought it's neurologic, and that was the first time that this was even on my radar. I was just so stunned that that specific ridiculously bad pain was something related to a neurologic condition. I just didn't have any idea that that could happen. At that time I ended up having an MRI for diagnosis of my MS. When I had that MRI it actually showed that I had thyroid cancer at the same time. So in a very strange way MS has saved me from having a much worse cancer diagnosis because it was caught so early on that MRI. While I was dealing with that I had surgery, and went through some stuff. I began the LDN. 

I'm actually a lawyer who typically has represented doctors and hospitals and those sorts of things, so I have a lot of resources; and my husband is actually a physician as well. I started trying to educate myself as much as I could about the inflammatory process and what that actually can mean, and how that affects everything, from depression, to cancer, to MS, to I don't know… your mood. And with the LDN, I've actually not started a disease modifying therapy. It ended up that I had cancer three more times after that initial bout. Not with the thyroid because it was gone. And it just started this huge health journey for me. I never really had any health issues. I was never really super heavy. I was never really super troubled by anything. And I feel as though, looking back, what a gift that was. But being on the LDN has just made me sort of born again. I think everybody should be on it. I think it's wonderful. It has done so many good things for me. It has lowered my inflammatory markers. Our prior home was just filled with stairs and maybe three months after I started the LDN, maybe four months, I was at the top of my stairs and I realized I had just run up the stairs, which I had not physically been able to do in I don't even know how long. It was like I was a child and just forgot myself and did it. And it was in that moment that I realized that my balance was so much better. 

For me, my biggest things besides my inflammatory markers being somewhat beaten down from the LDN, my biggest two biggest things were fatigue and balance that I was helped most with the LDN. 

Linda Elsegood: If we go back to prior to your MS diagnosis, what kind of things were happening transiently at that time? 

Kara: That was when I was probably my most clueless about myself. I was litigating, so I had trials, and my work was incredibly consuming. And I had two children, and I was just fatigued beyond fatigued, and I couldn't understand what was wrong, because I've always slept well. I've always had good bedtime habits and that sort of stuff. I would get home from work and it would be 6:30 and I would put my pajamas on, and just be preoccupied with how soon can I get to bed. That's just bone tired fatigue that I liken it to jet lag. I felt like I was jet lagged, and I had just gotten off a red eye, and I had slept a solid eight, nine hours. There wasn't anything to explain that. The other thing was it was falling. I had a couple of falls. I broke my ankle very very badly. I fell down stairs, ironically. And it became apparent that I was having some sort of balance issue. I had my eyes checked because I thought maybe, maybe I'm just clumsy because I'm not seeing well or something, and everything checked out. It just really was something that I kept pushing to the side until I no longer could, and I had to really look in the mirror and say this isn't a normal thing to have happen. 

Linda Elsegood: And how long from having the problems with your UTIs to actually being diagnosed, how long did that take? 

Kara: I'm embarrassed to say 20 years. Really. It was a long journey, probably lengthened by the fact that I'm very stubborn, and I'm a bit of a control freak, and so for me to have something that I couldn't control, that I couldn't fix, that wasn't making any sense logically, it was very difficult to digest, and realize that I actually truly needed help. I figured that part out and I went to my neurologist, and I had looked up LDN, and I asked him to prescribe it. He was an older gentleman, but also vegan and into all the ancillary things we can do to be better, and he completely scoffed at me and he said, “You're already gluten-free, you're already eating this, you're already eating that, I guess you'll be completely cured if you begin this”. So I left without my LDN, and I went to my primary care physician and I printed up all these papers about LDN, and I walked in and I was ready to plead my case as to why I would like to start this, and he laughed and said he’s been prescribing that for 10 years. I was like, oh why didn't I come to you first. He was very knowledgeable and I feel incredibly lucky that not only did I find out about LDN, that I found a provider that was willing to work with me and educate me about titrating up, and working through that part of it. It has just been utterly a game changer for me truly. 

Linda Elsegood: So how long have you been taking LDN now?

Kara: Almost 11 years. Wow. Yeah a solid 10 and a half years. 

Linda Elsegood: So what was your fatigue like once you've been on LDN a while? 

Kara: Normal; it was a normal logical thing that if I were up late I would be tired, but if I were going to bed when I typically do and sleeping well, I felt great in the morning, and I didn't crash during the day. I don't really use caffeine, so for me it was just incredibly noticeable when I was dragging, that I was literally coming in the door, can't wait to get on my jammies and go to sleep. It was night and day difference. It literally was as though I had been sleep deprived for so long even though I wasn't. But that's how it felt. It felt as though I had been sleep deprived, walking around in a haze, and then the clouds lifted. I think the other thing is I think cognitively that contributes to brain fog. Just that sense of - I don't know when I was fatigued, I was preoccupied with it. I was thinking about it. I was thinking can I put my head down on my desk for 10 minutes nobody will know. Just things that are kooky when I look back. And I thought good lord, why didn't I say something before. Again, I think that's probably part of my personality, but boy it really, really, really helped me a lot. 

Linda Elsegood: What about UTIs? Are they still an issue?

Kara: Nope, zero. When I was having the UTIs, it wasn't as though I had poor personal hygiene, or I didn't understand the mechanisms through which those terribly unpleasant infections occur. I knew all of that, and what's ironic is that even before my diagnosis - my oldest is about to turn 24, and when I was pregnant with him I had UTIs so badly that I had to be on an antibiotic my entire pregnancy, and then six weeks postpartum. Looking back, it was the MS. But I didn't know where to put that. I just thought, oh how odd that unfortunately, I've now started getting UTIs again, and I'm pregnant. And I don't know why.

Linda Elsegood: It's funny you should say that. I had Epstein-Barr - we call it glandular fever - when I was 13, and I had like a year of school, I was really really ill. But when I was 17 I started to get UTIs. One after the other after the other, and I became very aware of my bladder, and I could feel if I was dehydrated. I needed to drink more to flush it out, but it was just awful. I mean one load of antibiotics after another after another. And so I understand where you're coming from. 

Kara: Well, I literally have water with me at all times, only because I think I have PTSD from having had so many UTI. I guzzle water constantly still.

Linda Elsegood: Yes. It's quite funny, I saw a nurse and she said, I always have beside me a pint glass. If you do pints. But I've always got this glass, and she wanted to know if I was drinking three pints a day. I probably drink five; I don't drink just three. I know that some people struggle, and she was saying tea and coffee don't count, it has to be water. 

Kara: You're the only other person on the planet that does drink enough water the same way. I feel almost defensive when I'm questioned about my water intake by a new healthcare provider or something and same thing, really, I drink way more than that and I'm very good. 

Linda Elsegood: The only thing is as I've got older I pay for it in the night. 

Kara: Me too. Same. 

Linda Elsegood: There isn't a magic cut-off time where you can drink all day, and then you can go all night, and I quite often wake up twice. 

Kara: I know I'm like a puppy, that you have to put my water away at a certain time. 

Linda Elsegood: But it's preferable to have in UTIs. 

Kara: Oh my gosh yeah. Because you're still peeing in the middle of the night with the UTI. 

Linda Elsegood: Exactly exactly. So when you started LDN way back, what dose did you start off with? Can you remember? 

Kara: Yes I started at 1.5mg. I was on that dose probably about two months. My only side effect that I've ever had from LDN, I had called them pregnancy dreams, just like very vivid dreams that I get if I'm pregnant, or if I take Benadryl. So not anything terrifying, just very vivid compared to normal dreaming. That lasted maybe three weeks; I don't even think a month. Then I titrated up to 3.0mg, and I was experimenting with different methods of getting the LDN. I had troches at one point. They're like the little gummy things. I then ended up just on the capsules, and I went to 4.5mg, and for me the 4.5mg has been an optimal dose, and I've had good luck with it, and great success. 

I ended up having colon cancer twice, and a couple other little things, and one surgery, and I came off of it briefly. I was so anxious to get back on it because I didn't know if I would start feeling poorly again, or how it would work, but I have to say that even having surgeries, in that post-operative time, that can be unpleasant. I haven't taken a narcotic this entire time, and to me, that's amazing. I don't know what my little pain receptors are doing. I do have pain, but I've been able to navigate around that, and I'm very, very grateful for that because I've not had to take a big break from the LDN due to any of other ancillary stuff going on. It's been such a pleasant thing, and as I said, I when I speak about it to others, I'm sure I look a little nutty because I'm like, "Oh my god it's just so good, you should try it, it's cheap, there's no side effects and who knows, it might work for you" I could be on a billboard. 

Linda Elsegood: That's fantastic. So, what would you say to other people who've got MS, who are a bit skeptical about taking LDN because they don't like drugs, any drugs? 

Kara: Yeah, I don't either. I am vaccinated and all that good stuff, but I definitely try to avoid taking unnecessary things, and for me, this is an immunomodulating therapy that - I don't care how healthy you are, everybody's immune system could use a little bit of fine tuning, I think, and I can't imagine not choosing to do everything I can to be as well as I can, and for me LDN fits in that category. Because it's an easy to use, effective drug that doesn't affect - I don't even know how to say this clearly - I feel like a lot of the drugs that people take, whether it's like a valium or something like that for muscle spasms, or stuff for fatigue or the rest of it, they all have a lot of side effects, and I feel like there's a lot of people that don't like to take drugs, that don't even count those as drugs, and they are. For me, LDN has made me way more cognizant of my immune system and what I can do to keep it healthy, and eating well. Actively chasing that goal of health every day is what I do, and I think it's silly to not have an open mind and give it a try. 

Linda Elsegood: Thank you very much for having shared your experience with us today. 

Kara: You're welcome. Thank you again for having me. 

Linda Elsegood: Any questions or comments you may have please email me at Contact@ldnresearchtrust.org I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well. 



Asher Goldstein, MD - LDN Radio Show 2022 (LDN; low dose naltrexone)

Over the past 2.5 years that Dr. Goldstein has been prescribing low-dose naltrexone (LDN), he has shifted to a much lower and slower titration pack. He uses it for many applications in addition to pain, such as fibromyalgia, Crohn's, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, Hailey-Hailey, polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS). He gets referrals for LDN prescriptions from pharmacies. He is quite impressed with how LDN works against pain, and discusses prescribing for pain. Onset of action can be short, or months, depending on various factors. He is very open to help educate healthcare professionals about LDN.

Linda Elsegood: Welcome to the LDN Radio Show brought to you by the LDN Research Trust. I'm your host, Linda Elsegood. I have an exciting lineup of guest speakers who are LDN experts in their field. We will be discussing low-dose naltrexone and its many uses in autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. Thank you for joining us.

Today we joined pain specialist Dr Asher Goldstein from New Jersey. Thank you for joining us today.

Dr. Goldstein: Good afternoon, Linda, how are you?

Linda Elsegood: Good thank you. So, could you tell us what's been happening in your practice with LDN and pain?

Dr. Goldstein: I've been practicing now just about 15 years and only started using LDN about two and a half years ago. What's actually interesting is that I just attended a conference on Friday, two days ago, and when I last attended that conference in 2019, which was you know BC - before COVID – I had not even thought of LDN. I remember just flashing back to those three years previously. There was nothing about LDN said. I had nothing in my recollection about LDN. And interestingly enough, three years ago I went as an attendee, and this year I was invited to speak about LDN. So, they were very curious, and out of about a hundred doctors, pain specialists only about five had even heard about LDN. So, it was a very receptive audience with a lot of questions and answers during the non-technical sessions, just floating around. So, it was very good, and hopefully there'll be 95 other doctors that can help their patients as well in regards to LDN use and prescribing in the pharmacy.

It has developed and transformed dramatically over the past two and a half years that I've been using it. I've shifted in how I prescribe low-dose naltrexone.  I've gone to a much lower and slower titration pack. I start at half milligram, and I only go up by a half milligram a week. I have a compounding pharmacy that has made a Dr Goldstein titration pack, and by and large, the issues that patients had previously with side effects are 99% gone. I think I've had one or two patients stop LDN because of side effects in the last year, and that's nearly none. Everybody reports dreams at some point in time, but when they're warned about it, it's usually not an issue, and most patients will move their once-a-day medication to the morning, as opposed to the evening; and then generally, those patients move it back to the evening a few weeks later.

I really branched out and started using LDN in in many many applications, especially with patients that have come to me, not necessarily all the time with a specific diagnosis. I'll have patients come who have been in pain for 15 years 20 years. They've had a rheumatologic test here or there that sometimes shows something, sometimes doesn't. They don't have anything specific. They're feeling run down, they're feeling exhausted, and they're in pain and nothing else has worked. LDN seems to work very much for these patients even though they don't have specific diagnoses. I'm not even counting the patients that we're treating from a pain perspective, you know, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, Crohn's, you know the list is big. It's big and hopefully we'll get bigger. The list that we have has people that we can treat. I'm treating people even with non-painful conditions. I have a patient with Hailey-Hailey. My dermatologist friend was very upset with me because that's supposed to be his field. I'm like, I use LDN. He's like, hey I use LDN too. How did you know that it was very good? And then, polycystic ovary syndrome. Some patients have become referred from different pharmacies, so even patients without pain are coming just for the LDN.

I read extensively about it in the beginning, and you're like okay, I think I should use this. But then as a practitioner, once you actually see the proof in the pudding, it's amazing, just amazing. For me it has completely transformed my practice, and where some of the patients with difficult to treat pain syndromes are less difficult to treat pain syndromes now. So, it's been fantastic.

Linda Elsegood: So, the million dollar question that everybody asks is, I've been on pain medications for the last 20 years. Those pain medications aren't working. I'd like to try LDN. How can I go about starting?

Dr. Goldstein:  I tell the patient, but they'll usually say to me, the pain medications help me get around, but they don't really treat me well enough. They allow me to get out of bed. I tell them, a hammer can also put a screw into the to the wall, but a much better tool will be the screwdriver, right? And it makes less of a mess. So the opiates are the hammer, and it's hard, so you can either go the quick way, which is a little more difficult, or you can go the slower way, which is difficult in its own way. But look, if somebody's been on opiate medication 50, 20 years, they have to significantly reduce their load. Some doctors will want them to be completely off pain medication. I find that if we can reduce it to maybe 40 or 50 morphine milligram equivalents (MME) and people can look up what MMEs are online in regard to their particular medication, and how to convert it to MMEs. There are conversion calculators. But usually about 40 to 50 MMEs can still be handled with LDN as long as it's not extended-release medication. For example, oxycodone, a combination of acetaminophen, also sometimes known as Endocet, or Percocet in the United States. If somebody's taking seven and a half milligrams twice a day, three times a day, I can actually work that in together with LDN. I tell my patients as long as you're not taking the opiate medication four hours before or four hours after LDN, you should be okay. You can take it the other 16 hours of the day as long as you need, if you need to. For example, if they go to sleep at 10 pm and that's when they take their LDN, their last Percocet can be at 6 pm and the first one could be at 2 am if they wake up in the middle of the night. But between 8 pm and 2 am, this particular example, they can't take it. Now if somebody's on a higher dosage of that, they have to reduce it or eliminate it, and that could either be done over time with slow titration, or that could be done through medication withdrawal using suboxone. Both of them have their pluses and minuses. The suboxone is quicker, but it usually requires a patient to go through 24 to 36 hours of moderate discomfort. I call it going through the ring of fire, as until the suboxone kicks in. In order to help the patients, the other way is two to three months taper of lowering the opiates while not getting the LDN yet, which can also be uncomfortable, but it can be done. The bottom line is you don't have to eliminate it completely. It just has to be reduced.

Linda Elsegood: Okay, so what have the outcomes been, as in a time frame for LDN to actually start to work?

Dr. Goldstein: It's a huge variety of time for onset. I've seen as quick as a week. I've seen as long as six months.  The main thing is talking to the patients, realistic expectations, and setting an education, meaning patients have to understand that there are many different ways that people respond to the medication. Typically, patients with fibromyalgia go quicker; patients with things like polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) take longer. I've seen the patients with Crohn's - those go pretty quick. In general, the medication helps patients whose diseases have two things in common:  the immune system dysfunction - I don't like to say autoimmune, I like the “immune system dysfunction”; as well as an inflammatory state. In those patients that have more inflammation than immune system dysfunction, I find that the medication works quicker. And those patients that have more immune system dysfunction than inflammation, it takes longer. That's been my sort of empiric view of what I've seen.

And again, DNA is what really rules everything, so you can have the same disease in two different patients and they respond completely differently. My lowest dose to start LDN has been 0.3 milligrams, and I actually have one patient now, with polycystic ovary syndrome, at six and a half in the evening and two milligrams in the morning, so eight and a half milligrams. In the beginning I would have never even thought that a patient could respond at so low or so high, but what one thing I've learned about LDN is that don't ever put yourself in a box. You could, because LDN constantly is evolving in my mind, its use and how patients respond to it.

Linda Elsegood: You were saying there about the dosing range - have you gone higher than six and a half milligrams?

Dr. Goldstein: Not me personally. I have not had the need to. In a single dose, I haven't done higher than six and a half, but I have done the daily dose high of six and a half.

Linda Elsegood: Do you ever prescribe it more than twice a day?

Dr. Goldstein: Twice a day, okay, I'm open to it, but with those patients that I've found the need for the twice a day is usually where the second dose is having to deal with mood or energy versus pain. So those patients, once we get the second dose in the morning, that usually stabilizes them. That's typically why I'm giving a second dose. It's not necessarily for the pain, but more for the mood and energy. and as you say, everybody is individual, the dosing is individual. There are some doctors that are getting the patient stable, let's say on 4.5 milligrams, and then they will do a second dose in the morning of 4.5

Linda Elsegood: And you're doing it at a lower dose in the morning, but higher in the evening. It is so patient dependent, on what works best for that patient. How long would you say it takes to find that right dose for a patient?

Dr. Goldstein:  The right dose can work in as quick as a week. It's highly unusual - but that's the quickest. And I actually didn't believe the patient, so I sort of pushed them to go higher. Then they felt worse, and then I'm like okay, listen to your own advice, listen to the patient. We went back down to half milligram. It can take as long as six plus months. There's just a huge variety of responses. But like I said, the inflammatory-state patients respond quicker; the more immune dysfunction patients take longer. But the majority of patients that I've seen, that they're having their disease 5, 10, 15 years, so these patients have a lot of patience, typically, and as long as they perceive that the doctor is working together with them, listening to them, acknowledging, a lot of patients say to me, my family thinks I'm crazy, my doctors think I'm crazy. I'm like, you're not crazy, you have an atypical medication and an atypical issue, and atypical issues are sometimes difficult to deal with. When people don't want to deal with them, then sometimes we put names and labels on them.

Linda Elsegood: So for those patients who are on a very low dose, and LDN is working fine for them, do you try further down the road to increase that dose, or do you just…

Dr. Goldstein:  I mean, if it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of person, so usually not. I actually had a patient in this morning who said to me, and this is a person with a lot of both back issues as well as immune dysfunction issues, and basically it was fibromyalgia when he came in, and fibromyalgia is not a typical diagnosis in men, but this gentleman came in and I examined him. He was operating, he said, at 20% capacity when he started, and now he's at three milligrams and he's operating at 70% capacity, and he says, I'm happy where I am. He says, I don't want to push it any further up or further down. I'm worried that if I go up it'll be worse. He says 70% is a huge change from where he was. So again, if a patient wants me to push a little bit, I always tell them we can always move. I can write quarter milligram pills. If you can gently push it up or down, you have that ability. It's not a medication that's fixed in any which way. And then I speak to them that their need for the dose may increase or decrease with time, so they should just be aware that it's not fixed in stone. I even tell patients four and a half milligrams is just an aiming point. We have to aim somewhere.

Linda Elsegood: So, you can't see all the patients with pain around the world. What would you say to doctors who are presented with patients with pain, who don't really know anything about LDN, and don't feel confident prescribing it?

Dr. Goldstein: If I was able to spend a half an hour of educating a doctor, I get much more return on investment than half an hour educating the patient, right, because I can help one patient, but that doctor can help 100 patients a week. That's why I really want to go to the conferences that are not LDN conferences, and speak about LDN, and encourage doctors. I say, you know the upside is that it's relatively inexpensive, there are very few if any side effects, and very few if any drug-drug interactions. The downside for doctors is that you got to talk to your patients, but some doctors don't like to do that, strangely enough, as bizarre as that sounds. But that's really the downside - having sometimes to convince a doctor when they're like, I don't have the eight minutes to spend with the patient additionally, to speak with them about LDN. But I'm like, well first of all, you invest those eight minutes and they're going to wind up coming to you much less, complaining much less, taking up less of your time, because their pain is less, and if you can't do it, send me your Nurse Practitioner or your Physician Assistant. Let me educate them, and they can help the patients. It doesn't have to be you. As long as you're a doctor, there can be things that they don't quite understand, and you can help. You don't always have an exact formula on how to treat a patient. Sometimes, if the disease is not exact, then the medication doesn't have to be exact.

Linda Elsegood: So how can people get hold of you?

Dr. Goldstein: They can call my office, Asher Goldstein, 201-645-4336, and make an appointment, then we can take it from there. If there are physicians that are listening to this, and you want to spend some additional time with me, I'll spend half an hour or an hour. I'll go out to dinner, I'll have coffee; we'll figure something out, because for me to help a medical professional understand that this is about as benign of a medication as possible, and it can help all those patients, that when you see those patients on the list and you're like oh my god how am I going to help this person today?

I wish I found this medication years ago. Maybe I would have ripped the hair out of my head. I tell my patients this medication doesn't do anything to you, which is why there are no side effects. They're like well, why am I going to take it if it doesn't do anything to me? So, I say, this medication allows your body to start working for itself again. That's all it does. It blocks a receptor for three to four hours, that's it, nothing else. And it does that for three to four hours, then the whole magic happens - the magic of normal level of endorphins, that is. That is the secret sauce, right? Bring the endorphin levels back up to normal, and then the body has the fuel that it needs to do the myriad of chemical reactions that normal levels of endorphins allow.

Linda Elsegood: Well, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us today. I mean, it's fantastic what you've done in such a short period of time.

Dr. Goldstein: I look forward to helping more patients, and I look forward educating more medical professionals.

Linda Elsegood: Thank you, thank you. Good to see you. Hopefully next time, in real life

Dr. Goldstein:  Yes, thank you, and take care. You know, I give your story when I lecture. I say look, there was this woman who was told to park herself at the corner, and she refused to take that for an answer, and because of her, I'm here today.

Linda Elsegood: Any questions or comments you may have, please email me, Linda, at contact@ldnresearchtrust.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.



Carol Petersen, RPh, CNP - Discussing Healthcare, LDN Radio Show 13 July 2022 (LDN; low dose naltrexone)

Pharmacist Carol Peterson is most interested in successful aging, working with bioidentical hormones. Along with a manufacturer of advanced nutritional systems, they developed a carrier solution with phospholipids for topical medications, that greatly enhances absorption. Another focus on aging is Beta 1,3 Glucan, which has a very positive effect on the immune system, important in autoimmune disease. She also discusses hormones and hormone testing. Her website is www.thewellnessbydesignproject.com, and she offers a free 15 minute get acquainted conversation to see if people are interested in what she can offer.

Linda Elsegood: Welcome to the LDN Radio Show brought to you by the LDN Research Trust. I'm your host, Linda Elsegood. I have an exciting lineup of guest speakers who are LDN experts in their field. We will be discussing low-dose naltrexone and its many uses in autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. Thank you for joining us.

Today we're joined by pharmacist Carol Peterson, who's going to explain the new exciting things she is embarking on in her life. Thank you for joining us, Carol.

Carol Peterson: Thank you so much Linda. I'm not so directly involved with compounding LDN anymore, but I do follow this. I'm really interested in the most successful aging we can have, and so I spent many years directly with bioidentical hormones, which I think are a huge piece for people. And I'm continuing that work. You might find this interesting: I'm working with Quicksilver Scientific, and they've developed a dosage form that has phospholipids in it. Depending on whether the substance is water soluble or fat soluble, you can do a nano emulsion or a nano liposome, depending on your substance. And we're about to reach out to pharmacies to compound with this for hormones. One of the first pharmacists I talked to about this does a lot of compounding with LDN, so his question to me was, wouldn’t this be adaptable to LDN? Probably yes! We haven't done that yet, but it would be a phospholipid dosage form that you could use under the tongue. And in this case, it's going to be extremely well absorbed. We have really excellent data that using only tiny amounts of hormones will give you good blood levels and good function. So this could open up a whole wide area for a new dosage form for LDN, and maybe if we talk in a year, it'll be out there everywhere, I hope. Another potential would be to use it on the skin, because phospholipid dosage forms go through the skin very well, so it may be that tinier and tinier doses of LDN would be appropriate. It was kind of exciting for me. I'm also working with another two companies joined together, and they are US Enzymes and Master Supplements.

All my years of working with hormones is such a big pillar of having a successful aging process. I've added another two pillars. I think this is so important. A column of what's going to hold you up for your aging, and I think this is quite phenomenal, and just yesterday we've introduced, with Master Supplements/US Enzyme, a beta glucan. Why this should be interesting to anybody who uses LDN is, it's such a major stimulator of your immune system. This company has gotten Beta 1,3 Glucan, which has a linear, and they say has the most positive effect on your immune system, and should be applicable to any autoimmune disease. So that's kind of exciting for me. There's all these bridges from one place to another, and what else can I say. I'm doing some consulting online, I have a Facebook page and I've named it the Wellness by Design Project. I have a website, and I do individual consultations. If people want to work with me, they can. And this is not a big part of what I'm doing. I'm more interested in getting information out there. I have a blog I've been writing for the A4M website, worldhealth.net, and this gives me a huge voice that I was actually missing before. And I really am interested in helping a huge amount of people, and really Linda, that's exactly what you've done. I am just in awe of what a person can do when they're determined and what they can build. You are such an inspiring person to follow. So that's where I am right now.

Linda Elsegood: Wow, it's really exciting, isn't it? You've got your platform, and now you're going to go for it, which is amazing. Tell me a bit more about the carrier that you can put on the skin for LDN. Not being medical or having any pharmacy background. What is the difference between what you're talking about, and liquid or topical lotion?

Carol Peterson: Whether it's your mucous membrane in your mouth which, except for the mucus, it's skin too. And your whole esophagus is skin too, if you turn it inside out. But what happens is that you get an enhanced absorption with the phospholipids, and these are actually good for you too. Your skin, every cell in your body needs those lipids, the phospholipids, to put in their cell membrane. It actually could be used as a supplement all on its own. Therefore, I'm really excited about this, because you're feeding the body also, with the dosage form, instead of introducing chemicals, which I'm really against. I think there's a danger in the compounding world, and I think people should pay attention what their stuff is put into. I had a call from a woman, had a nice conference with her, and she called me because that was her number-one concern with a bioidentical hormone product, and she finally looked at all the ingredients in the cream base that she was getting, and she was horrified as she looked up every single one, one by one. That's 100% of what I'm concerned about. If you're using something that you're going to be using all the time, you shouldn’t be introducing things that could be potentially harmful or accumulate. We've got to consider our poor livers, because we're asking a lot of our livers in this toxic world, so there's no sense in adding to that toxicity. I guess we want to be using some things to help us, but don't introduce unhelpful things along with it.

So it's just phosphatidylcholine and different assorted similar molecules, and there's I think there's a little MCT oil in that. Lecithin has a phosphatidyl choline and associated molecules, so it's kind of an interesting thing, and I'm certainly going to going to plant that bug into your compounders’ ears when we get it out there. I think this dosage form has much more applications than just hormones.

Linda Elsegood: Would it be a case of using less LDN, which would make it more effective in that way, or would the dosing remain the same?

Carol Peterson: Probably the first thing to do would be to try equal dosing and see what happens, but potentially you need less. I'll use a hormone analogy like progesterone. I'm really against using the low-dose progesterone over-the-counter creams where they deliver 20-30 milligrams of progesterone, and women actually do have a hard time with this. They stimulate estrogen, and yet can't fill in all the things that progesterone needs to do with that little amount. They're miserable and they hate progesterone, that woman who is so anxious and can't sleep and irritable, has water retention, breast soreness. She needs like 200-300 milligrams, maybe in a cream. Then when you think about the rate of absorption through the array of creams available in compounding, you may have only 10% to maybe a maximum of 80% absorption. That's a thing that people don't understand. But with the phospholipid progesterone, Dr Shade, who is the owner of Quicksilver Scientific, said that he was able to get a luteal phase of 20 nanograms per deciliter. This is high-level phase level with only 20 milligrams of progesterone, whereas I just said it might take 200-300 milligrams to do that adequately. For a woman a lot of the times in conventional medicine, those low-dose progesterones are poo poo because you can't see it in the in the blood, and of course you can't see it because it's so tiny. It's just too weird, so I'm a real advocate of making sure there's enough. Probably there'd have to be some adjustment with people, and what's working, what's not; or maybe something's not working so well. Maybe it really is an absorption problem with some people who are not getting the results they could be from LDN. Changing the dosage form might be just the key.

Linda Elsegood: That's interesting. For people listening who think that you'd be able to help them with their issues with hormones and so on, how do they get hold of you? Could you give us your website address?

Carol Peterson: It's www.thewellnessbydesignproject.com. I chose it. It's rather long, but this was my web designer's idea. “Project”, because I used to be more black-and-white and think people should be able to be on a path and be an advocate for what they they're talking about. I was pretty judgmental. Now I realize that we're all in a path to make our health better, to make our whole lives more vital, and we're not going to get to perfection. But we can be on the path and get there, and that's why I said I want to help people with the project of themselves, and help them get better, get as much better as they can. As far as that's concerned, unless you're dead, I think you can improve, would you agree?

Linda Elsegood: Absolutely! So once people contact you for a consultation, how long is the consultation?

Carol Peterson: I'm offering a free 15 minutes so we can get acquainted and see if people are interested in that interaction. Why I think that's important is, whenever you're offering the gift of information, or you're the messenger, it might not be the right person at the right time, and I don't take that personally. I just feel that I've put a piece in the puzzle, and maybe it's going to help later on with somebody else. But if that person is ready to work with me, we can figure that out in 15 minutes. Then I offer our consultations, and then I offer a more extended program that would last over six months with more intense coaching.

Linda Elsegood: And does that involve any testing?

Carol Peterson: I like to see some testing. So much of the results, it's always clinical, whether it's LDN or whatever, you can't measure specifically very well. What your outcomes are, if you don't have the clinical outcomes, if you're not getting the results you want, testing makes no difference at all. What are you testing for? You can't measure what the person tells you about how they feel, how they're able to operate in the world. That's like 99% of what you're doing. But if I have somebody who's really rather complicated, I do a life extension panel. I like the elite panels for men and women. They measure the pituitary or growth hormones, thyroid hormones, adrenal hormones, sex hormones, Vitamin D. You have this whole measure, plus the blood chemistry, plus the blood differential, plus all the lipid stuff. It takes a lot of vitals of blood, and patients can order this themselves, unless they're from New York. It's self-directed. You can get your own test. I love it because you get a bigger picture. If you just go in and have your sex hormones measured, like people will do, it doesn't place it in the whole realm of all the endocrine system.

I have a hierarchy of hormones. The insulin - glucose is the most important, the most primitive of our hormones, and that makes so much difference. What we are going back to: we're going back to our nourishment, what we eat, how we eat. If that step isn't taken, you could be messing around with sex hormones all day long and not get whatever you want. Then adrenal hormones: if you don't have good adrenal activity, this is like life or death. This is quality of your life. Plus, if you need thyroid, thyroid becomes impossible to take if your adrenals aren't supporting that thyroid activity. Then finally, sex hormones. A lot of people know they have a hormone problem, but they'll think I know it's my sex hormones because I'm menopausal, but you really need the whole picture to do that justice. So, I like that more comprehensive test. If somebody is really not understanding what's going on with their body, and there's a lot you can get there, a test is no good if it doesn't give you direction. I was really happy: I arranged for a test for a young woman with difficult periods, a lot of pain, and putting on weight and acne, and I chose a panel. I was so happy, because a lot of the things were abnormal, and if you don't have a test that shows you where the abnormalities are, you can't do anything about it. You have no direction. How many people go to the doctor and have a test and they say oh, everything's normal. No, you haven't looked at the test results well enough, or you haven't picked the right test to use for that patient. So that's another piece of things that are going on.

So many people are told, especially with the thyroid, that it's fine, your levels are great, there's nothing wrong, when people are feeling really ill. You know yes, there is something wrong. I myself have secondary hypothyroidism, and that is my pituitary TSH, which is what they measure all the time, is simply always low. It's low if I use thyroid, it's low if I don't. I think my pituitary was poisoned. It came from an area of a country with the biggest amount of atrazine in the ground water, and atrazine is a pituitary poison. I've been working on that. But what do you do when your TSH is so low, and your other pituitary hormones are low? You treat what follows. You treat the thyroid, you treat the adrenals, you treat the sex hormone function. That's how I've been managing myself. But interesting enough, a doctor can look at you, and you have every symptom of hypothyroidism, and they would take a look at a very low TSH, and say you're hyper, and that's that, because they haven't even thought about the pituitary actually producing that hormone, and being unable to. It's shocking to me how many times they see this.

I follow a lot of Facebook pages. I do follow one on LDN, and I follow menopause and osteoporosis, and <perry>. There are so many people out there that are suffering needlessly, and sometimes they write about their pharma experience. One drug after another. And their lives are devastated. I want people to know I'm a pharmacist, and I would say renegade pharmacist. Drugs do not return you to health, never ever. To go down that pathway, as soon as you start it, the drug is going to cause damage, and create more symptoms of discomfort. You're going to add another drug, and another drug, and you are doomed to a marginal existence, and none of this is necessary.

Linda Elsegood: Well, that's amazing.

Carol Peterson: Everybody is aiming for their optimal health, right, and it's achievable. Always, the people with the most trouble have the greatest gains to be made. I'm reading an old book by Andrew Saul called Doctor Yourself. I love the philosophy, but he is really making a point, over and over and over again: things that we consider illnesses are most often deficiencies in something, and we know enough about biochemistry now, and in physiology we're able to target certain nutrients for certain things. The more you know about that, the more tools you have to help yourself. That's what you have to do in the end, when you go to a doctor with whatever you have, you should be in charge. You are the person who is the buyer, and the seller is trying to sell you information, or a protocol, or something to do. You have to keep that in mind. You would spend a lot more time comparing cars than you do comparing what that doctor is able to offer you. And doctors have forgotten that they are a seller, partially because they offer you a pathway, and they're not allowed to deviate from that pathway they're offering. We've got our medical system so entrenched in, like, flow chart medicine, that doctors can no longer develop a patient-doctor relationship, where they're interested in the patient, and go right along with the patient, and examine the information out there. When you think about it, we have a whole world of smart people in country after country after country. We have no database that we could really touch into for finding that person, say in South Africa, who's gotten wonderful results doing a certain thing. We have no way of knowing that. In this age of information, not having access to the world's information on how to keep healthy and at optimal health, it's sad really, We should be able to do that.

Linda Elsegood: Well fingers crossed that you're laying the foundations for that.

Carol Peterson: Okay!

Linda Elsegood: Any questions or comments you may have, please email me, Linda, at contact@ldnresearchtrust.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.