Pharmacist Tarek El-Ansary, LDN Radio Show 10 July 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.
Linda Elsegood: My guest is Tarek El-Ansary. He's the owner of Carmel Valley Pharmacy. He's also a doctor of pharmacy. Thank you for joining us today. Tarik
Dr Tarek El-Ansary: yes, my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Linda Elsegood: Could you give us your background, please?
Dr Tarek: Yes, certainly. I've been a pharmacist for almost 21 years. I graduated in 1998 from the University of Pacific School of Pharmacy with a doctorate in pharmacy. I worked in different chain pharmacies for the first eight years. And then I went on to purchase my first pharmacy, an independent pharmacy, and it was retail on need. We barely did any compounding. I went on to buy a few more pharmacies. And we had a lot of success with that. And then about five years ago in 2013, I started Carmel Valley pharmacy and I wanted to do something different, and, start with compounding and learn all about integrative and functional medicine that goes along with compounding. And that has really opened me up to many, many more opportunities and tools in the treatment options that are available, and it's just been, it's just been an amazing ride and process.
Linda Elsegood: wow. How would you describe your pharmacy now?
Dr Tarek: So my pharmacy now is really just focused on customer service and patient care. We do, we're a hybrid pharmacy, which means we do both compounding, and then we also do the retail commercially available pharmaceutical products that are made by the pharmaceutical company. So we do both. And it's a walk-in. People can come in, and we do also offer delivery and mailing, and a lot of consultations. We spend a lot of time, between myself, the pharmacist and the patient, and also interacting with the doctor, getting them involved. And we really do practice the triad of medicine, which is the relationship between the doctor, the pharmacist, and the patient.
Linda Elsegood: We are moving towards a pharmacist in the UK playing a role. Normally if you wanted any medical advice, you got it from your doctor. You didn't get it from your pharmacist, but it's still not working. How it is working in the States because you there, you just go to the pharmacy and speak to the pharmacist, but the pharmacist doesn't relay that back to the doctor. So we don't have it working. It's a bit dysfunctional. Really. It's not as good as what you do so
Dr Tarek: well, It doesn't work that often unless it's a type of pharmacy like I have when other pharmacies I've been at, which just retail me, it's still, we're still really behind on that also.
Linda Elsegood: Okay.
Dr Tarek: Yeah. It's just the type of practice I have now is different, and so now that triad works really well.
Linda Elsegood: And it's so good that you look into supplements and lifestyle and things that maybe the doctor wouldn't have the chance or time to go through.
Dr Tarek: Absolutely. You know, with the seminars I attend, I've learned so much about supplements, and unfortunately, the pharmacy schools and the medical schools are just not getting into that and teaching anything about supplements even to this day.
And so with the seminars, I'm learning a lot and doing them on myself, starting them on myself and my family members, and seeing a significant difference in our own health. And so it's giving me the firsthand knowledge to recommend for my patient. And the feedback has been really good and positive, which further reinforces, you know, an ??? to be able to carry on a message to patients who need supplements and specific areas of problems that they have.
Linda Elsegood: When did you first hear about LDN?
Dr Tarek: Uh, I think it was a seminar I attended. I go to PCCA And a A4M seminars, at least a couple of times a year just to learn the new things and keep up on my knowledge. And, probably about three or four years ago, the first time I heard it brought up at a seminar and in it was, it just sounded, it's really exciting and amazing.
At the same time, a few prescribers in my area started prescribing it and then I was able to spread the word to other prescribers that were open to doing compounds and new things that they hadn't heard about. And so we've seen it really spread since then.
Linda Elsegood: and you're in California. So I was just thinking about the supplementation.
Do people in California need to take Vitamin D, or do they get enough sunshine?
Dr Tarek: I would say they still need to take vitamin D. I would say just about everybody. The average level of an American, even including California is 15 and anything below 50 is considered deficient in vitamin D. Actually if you're not above 80, you're not considered optimal. And so you don't get a lot of the preventative effects of vitamin D like preventing cancer and stimulating and really helping to have a healthy immune system. And so by just being at 50, all you're doing is helping to keep your bones healthy, but you're not really helping with the immune system.
From what I've learned, it's for every thousand units you supplement per day, you bring that level up by ten, so if you're at 15 and you take 5,000 units a day, you're going to be at about 65 so you're going to be above the 50 Mark, but you're still not going to be optimal. So that kind of gives an idea of where it is, and we do see people getting tested when they are taking and it kind of, it really does follow along those lines.
Linda Elsegood: So how long have you been compounding LDN?
Dr Tarek: We've been doing it for probably about four years now. We opened about five years ago, a little over five years ago, and we've been doing compound LDN for the last four years.
Linda Elsegood: What forms do you compound in?
Dr Tarek: Oral, topical and transdermal.
Linda Elsegood: Okay. So. When you say oral, is it capsules, tablets?
Dr Tarek: Yeah, 99% of the time we have done it as a capsule. There are a few that we've done in liquid for small children that can't swallow capsules. And then also if we want systemic absorption, we can do it in transdermal effect, where we put in a light that's on base. So it gets absorbed really well into the systemic circulation. And then topically, we've used it for scars and, and, or itching type skin reactions. We've seen great effects because usually scars and itching and like psoriasis or, or rash, that's part of the immune response. And since we know LDN has a significant effect on our immune system. We’ve been seeing it having a great effect.
Linda Elsegood: let's
Dr Tarek: use topically. And then with transdermal always seen it used when we want to insist into the systemic circulation, especially with small children who are on the autistic spectrum. They're getting it absorbed really well and seen great effect.
Linda Elsegood: So do you have any case studies?
Dr Tarek: Yeah. Yes, I do. I had seen them when they were presented at some seminars. I do not have them handy. I have seen case studies done specifically just as an example, I think it was the glutathione 20% mixed with LDN, 0.5% in a transdermal cream if used with autistic children on the spectrum, and a significant effect that was. That had just by applying that each night by the parents and just rubbing it between the shoulder blades and giving the child a message at nigh with the cream and the parents, the feedback has been really good. And we have about five or six small children who get on a regular basis at our pharmacy and the feedback and the parents had, they tell me that it's made a huge difference in their children's behaviour and their life.
Linda Elsegood: So how old are the children when they starting at the end? What age are they diagnosed normally with, with autism?
Dr Tarek: It definitely ranges and we've seen as small as four or five years old. I would say probably the most common age is around 10. I think there is a level of confusion and denial on the parents' part of not understanding what is going on with the child's behaviour when they start to present with autistic behaviour around the age of four and five that I think there are a few years where they're just not understanding what's going on and to actually take them to a physician who can make a correct diagnosis.
Linda Elsegood: Yes. I knew a little boy who was autistic. A terrible shock for the parents, I must say.
Dr Tarek: We have a nephew in our family that is dealing with it and there were a few years of just not understanding what was going on before the diagnosis was made.
Linda Elsegood: Yeah. I just have to tell you, we, in the first documentary, we did the LDN story, we interviewed a little boy called Jacob, and he's a piano protege. He can just play Beethoven just without looking at music, and he's so talented, but he was all. I would say it was, but of course, he still is, but he doesn't show signs of it anymore. But when he was small, he wasn't responsive to his parents. He didn't want to be hugged. He didn't want to be cuddled. And as he grew older, he just used to fight them the whole time, and regularly he used to smack his mum across the face.
And one day after he'd been on LDN, she was always saying to him, you know, I love you, Jacob. I love you, Jacob. And he just didn't respond, apart from slapping her. But this particular day she said, I love you, Jacob. And he looked at her, and I think he was three or four, and he said, “I love you, mommy.”
And she called her husband, and she said, quick, quick, get the video camera. I want to ask him again, you know, say it again and see if he'll do it, and we will record it because he may never in his life. Say it again. You know, I want to catch it. And he just went from strength to strength—a totally different child. Absolutely. Amazing story.
Dr Tarek: I think there's many like that with LDN.
Linda Elsegood: Yes. Exactly. It gives you hope, but like you were saying, it's the confusion to start with, isn't it? To get that correct diagnosis. So, yeah. Is important. So with your capsules, what filler do you use?
Dr Tarek: There are two different fillers that we use. Typically we started with avicell, which is just very clean a filler that has no side effects, no inflammatory or reactive effects on, especially specifically to patients who have sensitivities. So we never compound with anything that would contain lactose or gluten or corn starch as a filler. But now there's been a few naturopathic doctors who. They loved the idea of compounding using the filler ginger root, because of its properties, especially with the gut health and just a soothing effect it has on the gut.
So that has been one of our common fillers now with the LDN, and other meds that we compound is using ginger root as a filler.
Linda Elsegood: Wow. Do you know, I've not heard of that before. How interesting. Sorry, ginger. Tell, make a note of that. Wow. I love ginger.
Dr Tarek: Yeah. Yeah. It's a great idea to mix it with their LDN.
Linda Elsegood: but of course, being a capsule, you swallow it so you wouldn't notice anyway.
You would use that. It was ginger.
Dr Tarek: Yeah. You don't get the bad taste. Yeah.
Linda Elsegood: Oh, bad taste. I love the taste of ginger.
Dr Tarek: Well, it can, it can have some good tastes, but I think the ginger root powder that we, you know, that we're using its a clean powder, but it does have a little bit of a bitter taste.
Linda Elsegood: does it?
Okay. So what would you say your main patient population is that use LDN? Would you know that?
Dr Tarek: Yeah. Uh, I would say it's adults over the age of 18 mostly getting it in capsule form. The most common dosing that we see is 2.3 or 4.5 milligram where the, you know, the vast majority is definitely below 4.5 milligram due to the fact that most studies show that the modulating effects of the receptor happen below 4.5 milligrams and we just, I don't think there are enough studies out there to know what happens when we go above 4.5, and I think the consensus is there's not really a need to go above 4.5 for most uses and that we see the effect, the response we want below 4.5 without the side effects. And so that's what we mostly see and the uses, it just ranges significantly between just gut issues, any autoimmune issue, neurological issues and pain. And on and on, it just seems like they keep coming up with a medical diagnosis that they try it on and they see good effects and the side effect profile, even though it's listed as sleep disturbance or vivid dreams. In speaking to my patients, and we have a few hundred different patients getting it each month. The feedback has maybe been one or two has actually told me that they thought they had a, it affected their sleep, but then again, you know, there's a lot of things that could affect our sleep.
So it could have been a coincidence.
Linda Elsegood: Yes. It seems to be a drug that is well tolerated. I'm must say from my fifteen years of experience of talking to doctors and pharmacists and patients. The people who mainly tend to notice side effects are people that are ultra-sensitive to drugs, and it's usually people who've got fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome. Those people seem to be so ultra-sensitive that they have to start very, very low and increase very, very slow. People get there if they're patient. But yeah, if you find it is too much for you, it's definitely an idea to have a very low dose and increase slowly.
Dr Tarek: Yeah, and that's a great point. And the patients who do require the slow titration up, we do the 0.5-milligram capsules, and it's anywhere from every three to seven days. They start to increase from one capsule a night to the second capsule to go to one milligram, and they slowly increase as they can tolerate it, so they get their desired effect, and then we stay at that dose.
Linda Elsegood: I mean, there are some doctors who prescribe up to six milligrams, some even go higher, but there are quite a few that try six. And with the chronic fatigue, there are some doctors who actually use double dosing, night and morning. And it's reported that those patients get more of the boost of energy, which is very helpful in those cases. What about thyroid patients? Do you have many of those on LDN?
Dr Tarek: We do, specifically when they have autoimmune, when the underlying cause of their thyroid issues is autoimmune, which I think that the large majority of them, and you know, specifically Hashimoto's. When the doctor OD is open and familiar with the uses of LDN, and they do use that on those patients, we're able to see a reduction in dose and their thyroid medication and supplementation, and we're seeing thyroid antibodies reduce just by initiating LDN.
Linda Elsegood: That's amazing, isn't it? How that happens.
Dr Tarek: about, do you use more often in the ones that said it is helping,
Linda Elsegood: but I mean, the people are using it for Hashimoto's, hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, Graves' disease, Sjogren's syndrome. I mean, they're all thyroid, aren't they? And there was a paper written on Sjogren's syndrome last week, which was interesting.
Yeah. So, yeah. And then you get people who think, how can LDN work for so many different conditions, but it's to do with the autoimmune component. We didn't realize 15 years ago how well LDN worked for pain. It doesn't have to be a condition that is all autoimmune, which causes the pain for the LDN to work. Yeah. And neuropathic pain, especially in diabetics, it works really well for phantom limb pain as well is, another quite new thing that I've learned about, but there is always something happening with LDN. I don't know whether it's common knowledge yet in California, but. pain specialists are using ultra-low-dose naltrexone alongside opioids and weaning patients off the opioids.
That's very exciting. We're actually going to be filming a documentary on LDN and pain because there are so many patients who are addicted to pain medications through no fault of their own. You know, they haven't been buying drugs on a street corner. These are prescription drugs, and it's still the same, isn't it? To try and get off those medications. You still go through the awful withdrawal symptoms, but by using ultra-low-dose naltrexone where you. I'm starting on a microdose and increase that slowly, decrease the opioid and the people that I've spoken to who it worked really well for. It's amazing. Totally amazing.
And quite quickly, because I thought you'd have to do it over a long period of time, but it doesn't seem to be as long as I would think.
Dr Tarek: Yeah. And those ultra micro low doses, are generally very low. So it's really important for anybody who wants to try it. They really need to be careful and, and understand instead of the dosing we've been talking about thus far, which is 0.5, up to 4.5 milligrams, uh, with, with people who are on opioids, we currently, we want to go start at 0.001 milligrams, so a very ultra-low dose. And because we don't want to throw them into withdrawal and cause them more harm, we want to try to help them.
Linda Elsegood: Exactly. And it's something that you would never, ever try and do on your own. It has to be under medical supervision because you could become stuck. Definitely.
Dr Tarek: Yeah.
Linda Elsegood: What pain conditions have you your patients been using LDN for?
Dr Tarek: I've seen it used for some fibromyalgia patients. And some neuropathic pain patients we've asked. We've also included it in our transdermal pain creams, so we are starting to add that into there and seen a lot of, a lot of great results with it. I wish we could use it with, uh—complex regional pain syndrome. The problem is those patients are generally all already on high doses of opioids, so we can't use it on them. But we have seen that it's really effective for those patients. But the patients that we have at our pharmacy, they're already on really high doses of opioids, so they just can't be on it.
Linda Elsegood: Well, maybe they could try the ultra-low dose.
Dr Tarek: Yeah, they could. You know, we were just starting to learn about it.
And that’s the exciting thing about LDN is we're constantly in a learning phase with this. And so we're learning more and more uses and more and more types of doses and, and, that's something that we, we want to try to communicate to those physicians that are treating those patients. And. hopefully, we can get an open ear that's open to learning more about it.
Linda Elsegood: Yes. I mean, Dr. Deepak Chopra wrote a paper long while ago now, probably 2015 on complex regional pain syndrome and LDN, not a very interesting paper, but there are more and more pain specialists looking into LDN for pain. And I have spoken to many patients who are not on just morphine or fentanyl patches, but a cocktail of medication and they say that their pain is still on a score of one to 10, 10 being worst, nine on a daily basis.
And it's awful to think that people have to suffer like that, isn't it?
Dr Tarek: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I have a young lady who comes to our pharmacy regularly who has the condition and, when it's acting up, and she comes in, you can, she's just kind of , bent over and walking very slowly, and you can tell that her pain is definitely at a ten on a scale of one to 10 and even though she is currently on high doses of opioids, it's just no stopping it. The pain is at a ten and, and she can't seem to find any relief at that point. Very, very hard to see someone suffer like that.
Linda Elsegood: Unless you've witnessed it and experienced what pain can be like. You think that you know you've got a headache, you take two paracetamol, you feel okay, but there is pain out there that does seem untreatable, doesn't it? Yeah, I can remember. Yes. Dr Samyadev Datta, he's also a pain specialist, and he was telling me how he has a practice, but he also works in the hospital, and he will get a phone call in the middle of the night that there's a patient, you know, screaming out in pain, the pain levels that are a ten and he will go in, and he'll say, okay. This patient is on 14 painkillers on this cocktail. They’re on too many pain medications. It's not going to work. You've got to take them off this, this, this and this, and sorting it all out. But he's very for LDN and ultra-low-dose and there is so much more coming in this in the next year, I am sure because. The PCCA, talking about LDN, more other conferences or talking about LDN? We have an LDN conference not that far from you really, is it? California? Portland in Oregon.
Dr Tarek: Yeah. Great.
Linda Elsegood: Hopefully, we will be able to get you there. Because meeting all these people and actually being able to put your questions to them. It's an amazing tool. Amazing tool. Well, if you would like to tell our listeners how they can contact you and what your website addresses, that would be good.
Dr Tarek: Yes. So the name of my pharmacy is Carmel Valley Pharmacy. The website is CarmelValleyPharmacy.com. And the phone number is (858) 481-4990. And lastly, my email, and if you go to the website, you can find my email, but just to mention it, it is, CarmelValleyRX@yahoo.com and I can be reached at any of those ways and I would be happy to receive any more questions or orders for prescriptions or any needs that you have with compounding or regular prescriptions
Linda Elsegood: Thank you.
Dr Tarek: It was my pleasure. Thank you for the invite.
Linda Elsegood: Carmel Valley Pharmacy is a family-owned independent pharmacy with a mission to provide the best pharmacy experience possible with exceptional customer service, access to knowledgeable pharmacists and cost-friendly prices. Cool. (858) 481-4990. Call Carmell Valley pharmacy.com the friendly store for their state of the art compounding lab and waiting to help you.
Any questions or comments you may have. Please email me. Linda, contact@ldnresearchtrust.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.