LDN Video Interviews and Presentations

Charis on the LDN Radio Show 1st July 2020 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Charis from the United States shares her Lyme Disease and Hashimoto’s and Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) story on the LDN Radio Show with Linda Elsegood.

Charis was diagnosed with Lyme Disease when she was only 16 years old, four years after she had a tick bite from a family trip to Minnesota. Ever since she searched for many treatments in order to remedy the disease, yet none had any success.

Only five years ago she was also diagnosed with Hashimoto’s and was struggling to conceive a child with her husband. Following her visit to a local nurse who recommended Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN), Charis’ life changed.

Within two weeks Charis was pregnant with her first child, and the symptoms of Lyme Disease and Hashimoto’s were reduced to the point where some days she forgot she even was diagnosed with them.

This is a summary of Charis’ interview. Please listen to the rest of Charis’ story by clicking on the video above.

Dr Yusuf Saleeby - 19th Feb 2020 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Dr Yusuf Saleeby shares his Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) experience on the LDN Radio Show with Linda Elsegood.

Dr. Saleeby is a 1991 graduate with a medical degree from the Medical College of Georgia in Augusta Georgia. Upon completion of post-graduate training at East Carolina University School of Medicine in Greenville, North Carolina, he had a two decade career in Emergency Medicine serving Emergency Departments in NC, SC and GA. He held leadership positions as medical director in his career. In addition, he pursued training in functional and age-management medicine since 1998. 

Currently, he practices holistic integrative and functional medicine in North & South Carolina at Carolina Holistic Medicine. From 2000 until 2006 he was appointed as co-medical director of the Emergency Department at Liberty Regional Medical Center, Hinesville, GA. In 2007 he was promoted to medical director of the Emergency Department at Marlboro Park Hospital in Bennettsville, SC until 2010.

With over 400 patients being treated in his practice currently, he has around 60 currently on Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN). In this interview Dr Yusuf Saleeby explains his interest in Chronic Lyme Disease and how LDN can help to combat the disease.

This is a summary of Dr Yusuf Saleeby’s interview. Please listen to the rest of Dr Saleeby’s story by clicking on the video above.

Shivinder Deol, MD - 27th Nov 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Linda Elsegood: Today, my guest is Dr Shivinder Deol, who's an MD, certified in family medicine and anti-ageing and regenerative medicine. Dr Deol has served at Bakersfield, California community as medical director of the anti-ageing and wellness centre for over 35 years. He specializes in integrative preventative and family medicine as a primary care provider.

Thank you for joining us today, Dr Deol.

Shivinder Deol: Thank you for having me. 

Linda Elsegood: So could you give us your background? Where did you train?

Shivinder Deol: Sure. I studied in a private school in India, one of the top leading medical schools for some medical college. Graduated from there in 1975 and then I came. I did a course a year off a residency in India, and then I came and joined a University of Tennessee, Memphis and did my training in medicine, psychiatry, and family practice.

And then, I've been in practice, since 1982 in Bakersfield, California. I've taken extensive courses in regenerative medicine and anti-ageing. So my training, even though it was initially more family practice, and I'm board-certified three times and family medicine, but my interest went towards more integrative medicine and functional medicine. For the last 15, 20 years I've been doing more of that. 

Linda Elsegood: When did you know you wanted to get into medicine? Were you very young?

Shivinder Deol: No, I wanted to be an army man. My family is a strong army. But my mother wanted someone to be a doctor. So my older sister, then my brother, passed out and did not go into medicine. So my mom said:" You got to do it." And I said: "okay". I got into medicine, but I'm so glad I did because I think it was my calling and I really had an incredible journey.

You know helping people, learning and growing myself with medicine.  

Linda Elsegood: I mean, things have changed, haven't they? I mean, you must have seen it from when you first qualified. What was it? 1975 where you went to the doctors, you told the doctor what was wrong and they, I remember it well.

I got married in 76 that people had their symptoms treated. But they never actually had the root cause treated in those days, which then eliminated the need to treat the symptoms. So, you know, what is it you actually do in your practice? If a patient came to see you with complicated symptoms, why would you start?

Shivinder Deol: You know, we would just, you know, and it was a great business for physicians and all patients came in, they got better and it was just an ongoing process, drug after drug after drug, and then treating.

So no one really was treating the whole body or looking at the real cause of a disease. It was taking care of symptoms now and we'll worry about the things later. 

Linda Elsegood: Yes. So what do you do now? 

Shivinder Deol: Now my focus is changed more.  When a patient comes in, my focus is more nutritional based, first and foremost supposed thing I'm really interested in finding. So this to me, the most important thing anybody can do is improve their nutritional status because a body is constantly working and regenerating itself.

So we estimate we have close to 30 trillion cells, but out of that, almost 700 billion cells are being built every single day of life. And we have hundreds of nutrients and the food that they're eating, which is processed, and with cold storage and with cooking, microwave, we've destroyed a lot of the nutrients that the body does not get all the raw material it needs for all its needs that all the regenerative and repair needs on a daily basis.

So my focus is nutrition and then I do a lot of things with detoxification, removing chemicals, toxins, poisons, reducing inflammation in the body through Iv therapies, chelation, all kinds of different things, hyperbaric. And then we do more stuff at balancing hormones and neurotransmitters to optimize health, brain health, heart health, and overall, you know, endocrine help.

So we do a variety of things to help the body improve rather than just fixing. A sore throat, some,  my aim is if I can prevent a single heart attack, a single stroke, single cancer, we do a lot of protection for breast cancer, for instance. So, basically, if we can reduce any of these massive major diseases, it's far better than, you know, treating the simple sore throats and colds and allergies that most people will have, but they don't really affect on lifespan with these scans.

Linda Elsegood: Okay. What kind of testing do you do when you're probing the patient to find out the wrinkles? 

Shivinder Deol: Yeah. So basically, you know, the insurance companies, of course, we are all kind of stuck with insurance companies to some degree. So the standard blood work that insurance companies cover, I do that but for instance, in a standard blood test, a lot of doctors will do as a free T4 and a TSH. But the key hormone and thyroid, for instance, is there a free T3 which is the active hormone and not T4. So unless we look at three-T3   and reverse T3, you really know what the thyroid function is.

So I look at more in the functional way of looking at health and so we do a lot of hormone testing, but the best way to test hormones are either through a saliva test or a comprehensive urine analysis. And typically insurances don't cover that. We do testing for heavy metals and for chemical toxicities.

So there's a really nice chemical toxicity test that looks at literally hundreds, if not thousands of different chemicals that we have been exposed to. We do food allergy testing, again, not the one that's covered by insurances, which is an immediate food has to be, but more a delayed food sensitivity test.

We look at a comprehensive digestive stool analysis. Look at gut health, gut inflammation, and see if there's an imbalance between the good and the bad bacteria in the gut. So a variety of other specialized tests that we do that can look at the body in a more natural matter. So trying to hit the cause rather than just the symptoms or repair.

Linda Elsegood: And you mentioned hyperbaric oxygen there. For people that are not familiar with hyperbaric oxygen, could you tell us what it is and how it works and what results you have seen?

Shivinder Deol: Sure. So hyperbaric oxygen is basically,  you're in a large chamber, which we are pumping in oxygen under pressure and under the, if you have some, some people remember the physics, the Boyle's law.

They've been, we put pressure, any of the gases are absorbed deeper and greater into the tissues. So when we pump in the oxygen, it goes into every joint, every fluid in the body, including the spinal CSF (cerebral spinal fluid). And so this increase oxygenation. It helps you the healing process in the body.

So if you can put oxygen into any tissues, the body starts to repair process and also discourages cancers, infections of all kinds of any chronic diseases. If we can put the oxygen, the body will start the repair process and use, any of the toxic effects off infections or, other pathologies.

So it's a great way to treat strokes or heart disease or traumatic brain disease, injuries of any kind, surgeries of any kind. So, for any surgery, if you were to get a hyperbaric treatment one before and two or three treatments after surgery, you cut down healing time in half, you cut complications in half.

So it's a very nice way to help repair the body. Also, injuries of all kinds, helps repair, very, very nice treatment, and very safe. I've been offering that for over 20 years. 

Linda Elsegood: Is it covered by insurance in the US?

Shivinder Deol: Unfortunately not. There only seven indication for which a Medicare will pay for and things like diabetic ulcer are non-healing ulcers, but you know, severe diseases they are willing to pay.  For minor issues, you know, they will not pay.

So it is typically a cash payment.

Linda : Elsegood: Is it very expensive?

It depends. So in our office, we charge to believe by the $150 to $200. There are some places, where they are in the three, $400 range. And some places, if they are using a smaller chamber, low pressure, they even offer it for like $125 a soul. But if you use a high-pressure chamber, you know, it's going to be about 150, $200, at least, if not more.

Linda Elsegood: Hmm. It's that for an hour?

Shivinder Deol: That's for an hour. But by the time you get in and out, it's going to almost be an hour and a half. So it takes about 10 minutes To get the pressure optimized in by us, then to brings the pressure down. So it's almost like an hour and a half a treatment. 

Linda Elsegood: I actually had hyperbaric oxygen when I was first diagnosed but it took me about an hour to get there and an hour to get back. It was very, very tiring because fatigue was bad. But I have claustrophobia and I was not really thinking about it, but it was quite a big tank and I think it sat about eight people. So I sat in this tank and I was thinking how am I going to feel when they close the door?

I'm really nice. And then they came out with these masks you had to put over your face. Oh, that was a testiness itself. But I, I have kind of got used to.

Shivinder Deol: We don't use a mask for this reason because it is so much closing feeling and our chamber has three different windows that you can look throughout.

So yeah, there is some claustrophobia, but it's really not that bad. 

Linda Elsegood: This small porthole but they are up high. So you couldn't actually see out. You could just see the other people who were in there with you for that.  Was quite an experience but unfortunately, it was run by a charity and it closed down many, many years ago now, which is a shame because I think they did some really good work though. So with the testing, one of the things that people quite often ask me about is Candida. Do you do Candida testing? 

Shivinder Deol: Of course, and Candida is almost like cancer. So candida basically get thin, and it's very hard to clear Candida out of the body. So yes, we do quite a bit of testing for candida because I think of candida as a very severe, but just to be insidious, it's very quiet, a low-level infection that can just, go on for years causing a lot of damage. But people not even, sometimes be aware of it, and in the long run, can lead to greater complications in losing potentially cancer.

We made it, we believe that it may be a cause of.

Linda Elsegood: Well, so many people have asked me that they do a saliva spit test in a glass of water or something and I don't know how accurate that is. But people tell me that they try these remedies to get rid of it and they can't, and they've been to doctors and they've still got it. You know, if you have a persistent Candida problem, how do you go about fixing it?

Shivinder Deol: Well,  basically that is several things. But candida loves sugar. In fact, every bad bug cancer loves sugar. So to treat any chronic infection, the first thing you have to do is cut out the sugar, cut out the carbs, and remember all carbohydrates except fiber break down to sugar, all of them. So people will cut out sugar, but they don't reduce the carbohydrates, and it's still on getting sugar in the body.

And as long as you're getting sugar, the candida is going to be almost impossible to kill. So the diet, again, comes in really important on a low carb diet. And then we may want to make the environment on hospitable for candida. So whatever the candida likes, we would cut that.

So keeping the body made more alkaline, keeping the body more oxygenated. So using oxygen and ozone therapies. And really helped clear it up candida. But Candida will generally require a prescription medicine plus several strong probiotics, Saccharomyces, and several antifungal herbal supplements to help fight the candida.

And it's a longterm treatment. It's not a quick course of treatment that'll help clear it. 

Linda Elsegood: Wow. 

Shivinder Deol: It requires a long process treatment. Yeah. 

Linda Elsegood: I didn't realize that it was so difficult to get rid of. 

Shivinder Deol: It is. 

Linda Elsegood: So how long ago was it when you first heard about LDN? 

Shivinder Deol: I think it's been, well, over ten years or even longer than that, that I've been using and that I heard about LDN.

And I think, I'm not sure if I heard it in a conference or if one of my patients came to me originally initially and asked me about it, but I think it was over ten years that I used it and the first patient that I actually use it on happened to have such a dramatic result that kind of opened my eyes.

So this lady had severe Hashimoto's thyroiditis and her tilters were in several. And so we treated her with the LDN plus a few other things, lifestyle changes, iodine, cut out gluten and so on. And her tilters started coming down dramatically, and about a year, year and a half or titers were back to completely normal.

So we had cured her now, Hashimoto's, and this was, I believe, strongly related to the use of LDN. And, so that was a very strong eyeopener for me on this, on LDN and its potential efficacy. And since that time, I've used it on a whole bunch of other patients for a whole variety of other conditions. But fortunately for me, that I had, my first patient responded so well that, it really made me a believer.

Linda Elsegood: You said that you've treated in lots of conditions with LDN. Do you have any other case studies that have been remarkable in your practice? 

Shivinder Deol: Yeah, a few others. So I have a patient with severe ms. Was very fatigued, but she's got severe tremors and she was extremely fatigued, and so I put her on LDN, and within days she could tell the improvement in energy level and the fatigue had improved very, very nicely. But unfortunately, I did not see, or she did not see any improvement in her tremors. But as far as the energy level and a mood, she comes in smiling every time. Poor thing is shaking a lot, but she's smiling. And so it improved certain parts. I had another patient who came to me from New York and stayed with me for one week.

She was on heavy pain medicine, fentanyl and morphine for 30 plus years for back pain. I got her detoxed completely within one week, and I use an IV, NAD, which is an incredible nutrient to help with the detoxification, increasing energy level and then up, put her on LDN. And this lady wrote to me about a couple, three weeks ago saying she felt so wonderful and that she has not had a single pain medicine.

In fact, she said, I don't even take Advil orTylenol but rarely for pain now. And she was really grateful that she had done so well and all for 30 years, her life was all around pain, medicine, pain medicine, and so that was a very nice response. 

Linda Elsegood: Oh, that's amazing because if you're in constant pain the whole time, it must make you feel a little bit irritable and short with people because you have to deal with that level of pain. You can't live your life normally in pain. It's not possible. Is it? 

Shivinder Deol: Right. But see, unfortunately, that reality is, what people don't realize is that acute pain and chronic pain are not the same pain.

And it's a completely different set of effects, a completely different disease, acute pain. So somebody has an acute practice, acute injury, acute surgery, that's a completely different, set of effects in the body versus somebody who's had chronic bad back pain or neck pain or whatever for 10, 20, 30 years.

 There our need for pain medicines are different. They are now just dependent on getting that  pill, of course, rather than the true pain itself. So it's become more of a withdrawal-type pain and not a lot of ease. Opioid receptors are tight, are doubted out, and so the effectiveness goes down.

But when we use something like LDN, we recharge our opioid receptors. We reactivate them. We produce a resounding amount of receptors so that we are having much better, pain relief without the need for any external medicines.  

Linda Elsegood: It always amazes me how such a small amount of naltrexone can actually be more powerful than the fentanyl and morphine.

It's hard to understand.

Shivinder Deol: It really is. But you know,  I'm a true believer of this. The body is a true miracle. And the ability of the body to repair and regenerate itself is just incredible. Our challenges that we have, that our diets are horrible. We are living in a really toxic lifestyle. And then we have all these other stresses that are influencing neuro-transmitters and our chemicals and our hormones.

The body doesn't get the opportunity to repair and regenerate itself. So when the state garbage out of the body on necessity, medicines and toxins out, we balance some of the nutrients. We helped the body produce its own good nutrients and endorphins. The repair process becomes really dramatic and the body can pretty much heal anything.

So I see a lot of miracles, but it's really not a miracle. That's what the body is designed to do is to help. He looks healthy all the time, regardless of what's going on. So we are great healers.  

Linda Elsegood: And you were going to give us another case study before I butted in.

Shivinder Deol: I did not understand. 

Linda Elsegood: You were going to tell us of another case study. Another patient. 

Shivinder Deol: Oh yeah.  A cancer patient. Basically patient comes to me with metastatic cancer. LDN is great in supporting cancer. You can literally help stop cancers from spreading.

So this patient basically the doctors told him that just go home and die and he's a relatively young guy and he doesn't want to die. You know, who does? So he came in, you know extremely tired, extremely tired, and just basically depressed, no energy and kind of giving up. But the wife is wonderful.

Wife is so supportive of him. And so we've started him on a high dose, intravenous vitamin C, 75 grams three times a week. And he started feeling a little bit better. And then I added LDN to his regimen. I've got him on a lot of different things. So put him on a keto diet, very strict Keto diet.

And so we put LDN on, and his mood has improved a lot that he can tell, and he is now able to start to do a few things. So I don't know what the status of the cancer is. It's too early for me to do any scans on him, but I'm certainly hopeful that with his mood outlook, comparing his energy is improving that maybe we're going to get a decent result on his very widespread metastatic cancer.

...

Linda Elsegood: Well, I believe we've now come to the end of the show, so that has been amazing. When very quickly, would you like to tell patients how they can contact you if they wish to make an appointment? 

Shivinder Deol: Sure. My website is antiagingwellnesscenter.com. 

My email is support@antiagingwellness center.com and, the office phone is 661 325 7452.

Linda Elsegood: And do you have a waiting list? That's the other question.

Shivinder Deol: Do I have, what? 

Linda Elsegood: A waiting list? Do people have to wait to see you? 

Shivinder Deol: No, well we basically work people in. My philosophy always has been that we are in a service industry. We are providing a service. And  in the service industry, if you have, your electricity is gone, and you call the electrician, and he comes a month later, it doesn't work.

Or your car is broken down, you know? So if someone comes in that needs to be seen now, I'll see them the same date. I don't care. They may have to wait a little bit. We may have to work a little harder, but we take care of somebody who needs to be seen when they need to be seen. So I don't keep awaiting this for this reason.

Linda Elsegood: Oh, that's wonderful! Well, once again, thank you very much for having been our guest today, 

Shivinder Deol: Linda. Thank you very much and you take care.

Linda Elsegood: This show is sponsored by Dickson's chemist which are the experts in LDN at associated treatments in the UK. Dickson's chemist, the most cost-effective for LDN in all forms within the UK and Europe maintaining safety standard of what is required. Why would you choose to get your LDN from anywhere else?

Call 01414046545 today to speak to a LDN experts 

Any questions or comments you may have, please email me, Linda@ldnrt.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.

Yusuf Saleeby, MD - 20th Nov 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

I  am Dr. Yusuf Saleeby and practice in the South Eastern coastal United States in South Carolina. We have our main office near Myrtle beach and a second satellite office in Mount pleasant.

We see patients with autoimmune diseases of various types, everything from MS to Ulcerative Colitis and Crohn's disease where Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) can be used

We are prescribing a lot of Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN). We also have relationships with several compounding pharmacies in the area, both in North and South Carolina.

If somebody comes into a compounding pharmacy seeking out LDN, but does not have a prescriber that is knowledgeable or willing to prescribe, the pharmacist will give them our names and refer them to us.

Lyme disease is a problem in every state of India, every 50 States in the US and internationall in Brazil, Argentina, China, the Netherlands, Germany.

So we are doing diagnosis with the Borrelia as well as the co-infections, like the BCO Bartonella Ehrlichia.

We know very little about good treatments. There's the variety of different protocols for for treating Lyme in the chronic phase. And it's very poorly research. It's very poorly understood, and it's all over the place.

 To protect against tick bites, if you are out in nature, after, you need to do a tick check, a full-body tick check on you. Wear brightly coloured clothing like white as opposed to a dark colour.

If you're walking in high grass pull the socks over the bottoms of your pants. Use natural repellents.

There are also some clothes that are impregnated with Permethrin. You can wear the same garment multiple times, like ten times and wash it, and it still has the active agent within the material.

When you're out in the in the woods, these little critters will crawl up from your shoes to your legs and kind of lodge in your groin area, under the armpit or axilla or back of of the neck and they can feed on you for a couple of hours or even two or three days and then fall off. And you don't realize you've been bitten.

And the heralding sign of a bullseye lesion is only present and about 30% of people who will contract a cute line.

You wouldn't know until maybe months later when you start having symptoms. And it could be a mired of symptoms. A lot of them are confused with other disorders.

A lot of people come in with Ms diagnosis,  with fibromyalgia, people with all kinds of other autoimmune diseases. And when those diseases are identified the workup stops there.

Sometimes medications that are given could be even worse than the disorder itself. But in functional medicine, we obviously go deeper to find the root cause, and sometimes we find that it is a tick-borne illness that's causing these symptoms.

Usually, at that point, it's chronic Lyme disease or late-stage Lyme, which is a totally different animal than an acute line or chew. Lyme is really easy to treat. Sixty days of Doxycycline or  a type of penicillin drug. We'll usually eradicate it, and end of a story that's it is finished. But if it sets in as chronic Lyme, it's really a different way to treat.

And it's really, really difficult to try to get it under control.

LDN does have a place in Lyme disease, and many of my patients will benefit from Low Dose Naltrexone, whether it's for the pain states associated with some of the Borrelia and Bartonella that cause fairly excruciating pain, but also as an immune enhancer because most of the people that are susceptible to the late-stage chronic Lyme disease are folks that have a  out of balance immune system. And LDN is used to put it back into balance.

I had a longstanding 20-year history of ulcerative colitis woman that came to me and within a few days of taking LDN, I get a phone call from her, and she says.

You're not going to believe this, but the bloating and gassy and my intestines and my stomach have improved like 90%.

Her belly is nice and flat. She doesn't complain of all the usual symptoms of IBD, Ulcerative Colitis.

And she's not on any of the other traditional traditionally prescribed medications for Ulcerative Colitis  Irritable Bowel Disease.

We're are seeing a lot of publications in Europe which are proponents of the use of LDN and, Inflammatory Bowel Disease.

She has sensitivity to gluten and wheat,  so if she cheats a little bit on her diet, she'll get more symptomatic. So we encourage her to be more compliant with her diet.

She's been doing that for over a decade anyway. But then with the inflammation implementation of LDN and even one milligram, her symptoms were relieved almost instantaneously.

I was just quite amazing the change in her. She almost looked  like she was four or five months pregnant when she first presented if she was that bloated.

I had a woman with Hashimoto's and  while she was on LDN, her TPO titer started to drop on a steady downward slope. And then when she ran out and was without it for three months or TPO, tighter spiked up again. And she's on a natural desiccated thyroid replacement, and she's doing quite well.

She continues taking it. I usually tell my patients. I said," well,you take it as long as you want to continue feeling well. Now if you decide at some point in the future, after two years, you don't want to feel well, well then stop taking it." And so I think they get the picture.

Or only a few patients I have to take them off  and restart at a lower dose. And sometimes they use very Low Dose Naltrexone just because of some of the symptoms. They may report a GI upset, vivid dreams that are disturbing to them. And then sometimes I switched the dosing from nighttime dosing to daytime knowing that's going to be a little less effective, but at least we're getting it in them and then making dosage adjustments.

Summary from Dr. Yusuf Saleeby LDN Radio Show. Listen to the video for the show.

Pharmacist Kim Hansen, LDN Radio Show 30 Oct 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Linda Elsegood: Today, my guest is pharmacist Kim Hansen. She's from the Town and Country Compounding Pharmacy in New Jersey. Thank you for joining us today, Kim. 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. 

Linda Elsegood: So when did you first decide you wanted to become a pharmacist? Was it something you'd always wanted to do?

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Absolutely.  I was working in a small independent pharmacy, a traditional retail pharmacy when I was in high school. And on occasion the pharmacist there would say, Hey, Kim, go mix these two creams. Or Hey Kim, go mix these two liquids. I was hooked. I knew that's exactly what I wanted to do. And from that point on I headed for pharmacy school and that was my path. I knew it immediately. That's what I wanted to do.  

Linda Elsegood: So where did you study?

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Rutgers college of pharmacy in New Jersey. 

Linda Elsegood: So you haven't moved far? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: I've travelled far, but I haven't moved far. 

Linda Elsegood: So once you started compounding,  what were the main medications you were doing at that time?

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Back in the day, it was usually combining a couple of creams together. That was before we had a lot of the manufactured products that we have now. A lot of times compounds start off that way, then they end up being manufactured items later. I used to have to make a topical minoxidil solution. I used to have to make up progesterone capsules way back in the day. Suppositories for progesterone. This was 20 some years ago. So it was before I knew of LDN.  I was doing compounding before that. Mostly progesterone and topical dermatological items that were not commercially available.

Linda Elsegood: How did you hear about LDN?

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: I think it was at a compounding seminar is the first time I'd ever heard of it. It was being discussed for autoimmune issues. I started seeing prescriptions for it about seven or eight years ago. Usually, it was just capsules, usually, it was the three different dose levels that we know differently now. It started gaining traction more for me within the last three years. But I did see it back seven or eight years ago.

Linda Elsegood: And what forms do you compound LDN into?

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Right now we do capsules and oral suspensions. Most often it's the capsules that patients are happy with. We also do a cream for patients with autism, and occasionally it's added to pain gels as well.

Linda Elsegood: What is the filler of choice for people?

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Generally speaking, patients are happy with acidophilus. I do have patients that don't want that. And then we usually use micro crystal and cellulose, but if they have a specific filler question or need, we're happy to accommodate that.

Linda Elsegood: And what strengths do you do now in the capsules? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: I think our lowest is a hundred microgram capsule because that patient prefers that to be in a capsule form versus the liquid form, anywhere up to 10 milligrams and anything in between. 

Linda Elsegood: And the patient population, what would you say the top conditions that LDN is treated for from your pharmacy? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Hashimoto's, pain and depression. 

Linda Elsegood: So talk us through those three, Kim, the experience that you've seen from those patients. 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: I'll start with Hashimoto's. We do notice patients are getting to a dose that is appropriate for them and are feeling better. They also require less thyroid hormone.

If someone is on thyroid hormone and start LDN, that should probably be monitored more closely than before you started the LDN, because you'll find that as the inflammation reduces, the thyroid level changes and you may need to change your dose. Usually, it's a reduction in the thyroid dose when it comes to the pain medication using it for that.

I have patients who have had their lives changed. They were in a tremendous amount of pain before, and they were put on other pain pills. Any medications usually were just adding to their pill burden, but not really giving them relief or quality of life that they were looking for. I have patients who weren't able to do any of their activities of daily life and now are doing things that they haven't done in 20 years. To me, that makes things tremendously rewarding to know we can be a part of that success story.  I should also mention when discussing pain with patients, I have patients who have become tolerant to opioids. So we also find that LDN is a way to help reduce the opioid burden and help people get off of those and still maintain their pain relief. I view those two things together like pain and sometimes patients are looking to get off the opioids for relief of their pain. So it actually does both. 

The other I  touched on was depression. I have patients who are using an increasing schedule of LDN and also weaning off usually their SSRI or antidepressant drug. And they're finding if they wean very slowly off the antidepressant and titrate upwards very slowly with the LDN, they're able to get off of the antidepressant and still maintain a non-depressed state. They're happy to be off the medication and be able to use LDN, which we know works in a different way and usually has a better overall effect than the actual medication worked for them. 

Linda Elsegood: Ultra-low-dose naltrexone helps combat the opioid crisis. Could you talk us through how, when people come to your pharmacy, whether it's been addicted to prescription drugs for many years, how LDN plays a part in getting them off the opioids, but still controlling the pain? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: I won't get into a specific schedule because it is so dependent on each patient. I will say that we usually start patients on the microdose or the low dose, ultra-low-dose naltrexone, usually in a suspension form, and they'll be on whatever their dose is usually for about a month. And then after they're stabilized with that, the pain management expert will slowly increase the dose of their ultra-low-dose naltrexone and also decrease their opioid dose usually by about 10%. Again I don't want to give schedules and hard limits because every patient is so different in their ability to reduce. It's very varied as far as that goes, but I have many patients who have been on rather strong doses of opioids that have been on that for years, have been able to slowly titrate up on the naltrexone and slowly wean down on the opioid and have had success and be pain-free and opioid-free. That's huge to have that happen. We had one hospice nurse  (certainly hospice nurses are very well versed in pain and pain origins and pain protocols) who herself had her own pain issue. We walked her through this process of slowly starting the ultra-low-dose naltrexone and scaling that up over time and reducing the dose of the opioid over time. Now she’s opioid-free and as pain-free. And it definitely helped her increase her quality of life and also to be able to do the things that she couldn't do before.

So that's a huge story. I mean, someone who is on opioids, to be opioid-free is huge. 

Linda Elsegood: Definitely. For people listening out there who are in a lot of pain, because I'm told nearly daily that there is somebody who is in terrible pain, but they were already on very high doses of an opioid that doesn't seem to be working, you know?  Of course, the problem with opioids is your body gets used to them, and you have to keep increasing the dose to get the effects you were having. So anybody who has chronic pain for whatever reason, or fibromyalgia or having an autoimmune disease that has a pain component to it, how would they go about.

finding a doctor who would prescribe LDN and one that would understand about the ultra-low dose, who would be able to help them transition from the opioids to the ultra-low dose?

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Two awesome ways to find that out. One is LDN research trust. There are lists of physicians and practitioners on there that are knowledgeable in what we're talking about here. You can also ask your local compounding pharmacist because we are a treasure trove to know who is actually prescribing it in order to be able to send patients.

It works both ways. The prescriber sends the order to us as they know that we'll do a quality compounded product. I can then refer patients back to other practitioners because I know that they're knowledgeable in this and then they've attended our seminars and that we can work together with them in order to get the best outcome for the patients. So it works both ways.  

Linda Elsegood: I was quite surprised when Dr Sam was telling me how quick the process is because I thought it would be a long, slow process. But he was talking just a few weeks, which was, wow. People that had been on opioids for many years, to, find relief like that, it just amazes me that something.so small and so simple seems like tickling the pain with a feather in those ultra-low doses rather than using a really big mallet, which is the opioids, for it to work. It just is mind-blowing, isn't it? And of course, the price, LDN is not expensive, and many people have to pay for it themselves. And it's not a price out of the reach of most people. We still have people who do not have money, they're sick, they're not able to work. And if it's a choice between food or LDN, that's a problem. But we're looking at around $30 a month, depending on where you have it compounded. It's an affordable drug, isn't it? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Absolutely. We try to maintain that because we do understand that patients are in pain and you don't want them to have to choose between therapy and their food or their bills or whatever that is. We want patients to get the relief that they need.

We've kept what we're doing affordable so that we can make sure that it's available to as many patients as possible. Usually, you'll find whatever pharmacy you use, if you're going to be starting a titration and working your way upwards, usually that pharmacy will put together a kit.

So you've got maybe two different doses of a capsule in there so that you can gradually increase to the dose that you are working towards. And then once you arrive at the dose that's working for you, then that pharmacy can make that dose into one pill so that it becomes more economical if that makes sense.

Linda Elsegood: Yeah. I had a lady email me this morning, I think she had Sjogren's syndrome, and she was doing really well. She'd worked up to three milligrams. It did really well. She's now on 4.5 and she's not sleeping,  not feeling as well. And I was trying to explain that with LDN it's not, the higher the dose, the better the benefit. It's what suits you best. And if at three milligrams, she felt really good, why would she need to go to 4.5? It's not working. It's making her feel ill, so she should go back to where she was in a good place. There is so much misinformation out there that people seem to think that this magic 4.5 is the goal that everybody should be on. Have you noticed that with your patients? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Absolutely. I've had patients tell me the same story that you're describing here. Everybody has in their mind that more is better and that the goal is to get to a certain number because that's where the best results are.I am always cautious about making sure I explain to patients, hey, we're dispensing a kit to you. This initial kit is usually good for 49 days or seven weeks, but if at some point halfway through this kit, let one of us know that you're experiencing relief or you're not experiencing anything at all. If you are at a dose where it seems to be optimized, I don't want you to have to continue to go up because the goal isn't to make it more, the goal is to get relief, and if you're getting relief at a lower dose, then stay there because it's very easy to overshoot that and you'll lose the benefit. So, in this case, absolutely more is not better.

Linda Elsegood: Do you have any stories of people who are on a very low dose that have stuck to that's the right dose for them? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Yes, a patient with diabetic neuropathy who was using the kit and they had gotten to a higher dose, and they weren't feeling so good on that. He backed off the dose he had gotten to, I think it was three milligrams. He went up to the next step, said I don't feel as good as I did on the dose before that. Then we know where you should be. And we had him go back to the dose he had come from,  he's much happier there, and he's able to function.

Whereas he was in pain and uncomfortable before. 

Linda Elsegood: What I was getting at there was, I know quite a few people that are on 1.5 or two, which I mean is low for low dose even, isn't it? People tend to think anything under three is no good, but even that is too high for some people. Not everybody gets there. As you were saying with the man with his diabetic neuropathy, you don't have to panic. Or thinking that you know you're not taking the right dose. I know some people think that it's not a therapeutic dose if it's under three, but that is a myth, isn't it? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: I would agree with that. Every patient is different and how they respond to it. So even if you have identical twins. A member of your trust that lectured about this, their one set of neighbours. They completely matched as people go, and the same age, same condition, same everything else. If you go down the line and, person A got results more quickly than person B. So person B was discouraged thinking that they weren't going to find the same relief that person A got.  Having to start over with patient B, and go a little bit more slowly, titration was the key for her. So whereas a lot of times you'll see dosage regimens that, every week we're going to increase by whatever the increment is. Sometimes patients will need to go even more slowly than that and maybe increasing every two weeks or maybe every month, whatever that takes. And again, not everyone is the same. So if you get to a dose rate, like, I didn't feel anything the whole way. Sometimes you can, wash it out, start over, and go more slowly and find results there. It's just so dependent on each patient and just because you haven't gotten the answer that you want and you've gone up to 4.5 sometimes the answer isn't going up a higher dose. Maybe it's starting over and going up at a slower pace.  

Linda Elsegood: Some people feel quite discouraged starting again, but by doing it very, very low and moving up very, very slowly the fallout rate isn't as high, and the success rate goes up. You know, 20% of people didn't have the relief they were looking for, but that 20% has reduced, hasn't it? We are getting a better success rate now, understanding there are people who do need to look at LDN differently. 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Completely agree. Back in the 80s when we were doing 1.5 and three and 4.5, that was such a rigid structure that you probably lost a lot of patients who didn't have success and or probably had side effects that they weren't pleased with. Changing our thinking with the results we have now, knowing that going more slowly and doing slower increases or lower increases is actually beneficial overall. Yes. Patients who have tried with not finding their success before; it doesn't mean you won't have success trying it in a different fashion.

Linda Elsegood: Exactly. And then there's the other school of thought where you have to take it at night. You know, it's not gonna work for you if you take it in the morning. We now know that's not true. Is that what your experience has been? 

Kim Hansen: I would say that's true.I think yes, at the beginning of the push was, Oh, you have to do it at night because your body does repair at night but you know, here's no reason why you can't do that during the day. And there are also reasons why you would want to do something twice a day and do split dosing. Some disease states and some patients do better when they're split dose.I find that is the case with using it for the antidepressant purposes, sometimes a split dose is better for that patient versus the whole dose at one time of day regardless of morning or evening. Again, individualized treatment, and you have to listen to the patient and listen to what they're saying to you so that you can work on a treatment plan together. 

Linda Elsegood: And you were saying about the topical cream for children with autism. Do you have many children with autism? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: We're in New Jersey, unfortunately, we have one of the highest percentages of autism in children. So yes, I do see it, not as often as I once did, but I do see it, and usually, they're not amenable to swallowing pills. So usually the parent is putting on cream at night when they go to sleep, and they don't even know what's being applied.

Even if they take a capsule and they put it into a smoothie or whatnot, kids are wise to that because they're probably on a whole bunch of stuff and they're eyeing up every meal that comes to them, making sure nothing's been hit, so they're pretty wise to it. You'll find that the cream is helpful in those cases and yes, it does work.

Linda Elsegood: And have you come across children with juvenile arthritis or pediatric Crohn’s who are taking LDN? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: I have heard of it, but not in my experience here. 

Linda Elsegood: And no children or adults with asthma allergies. 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen:  I had heard of it of course but no experience of that directly here.

Linda Elsegood:  It's amazing, isn't it? Initially, going back,15 and a half years when I started the trust, it was mainly people with MS. Then it went to Crohn's, then fibromyalgia, it was just exploding. But we didn't know too much at that point what it did for chronic pain that wasn't autoimmune. We knew it helped with cancers. We didn't know about all the mental health issues and of course, it's used in fertility clinics as well, and for women's health, for painful periods.  There's a name for that, PCOS, polycystic ovaries. Dr Phil Boyle uses it in his clinic to help women get pregnant. They take it during pregnancy, during breastfeeding, have really happy, contented babies, he says, and they have less chance of needing IV antibiotics for chest infections and things, which is apparently quite common in babies when they're firstborn. And he said, as a rule of thumb those babies are far more content when they come back for checkups,  than babies that haven't been exposed to LDN, which I think is quite interesting, isn't it? 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: I agree completely with that. When I have a patient that's here, and I'm showing them the list of disease states or conditions that this is helpful for. And of course, their question is always, how could one thing be good for all of these? And I love that question because that means that you're thinking, okay. And you're sceptical, and that's fine, but then when you explain that a lot of these systems are all tied together and how pain and depression are linked by the same pathways as is your immune system, as are a lot of different things, inflammation, all tied together.

When you can explain and have them understand how the different systems in your body interplay, that's when the light bulb goes off because traditionally here in the United States you go to the foot doctor for your foot problem, you go to the GI doctor for your stomach problem, you go to the neurologist for the neurology problem. And really they're not all communicating.  When you look at the thread of symptoms that a patient is dealing with it's like you're missing the overall theme of inflammation or whatever that is. And LDN is helpful for that. So, therefore, it's helpful for all of those conditions. It's not because things are tied together. That's why it's helping you. I hope that made sense.

Linda Elsegood: It does. Now there are other things you can do to help inflammation as well as taking LDN. What do you suggest patients do?

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: For inflammation? Well, it's very important. I always remind patients that their diet is everything. If you look at the glycaemic index, it's scaled anywhere between zero and a hundred and sugar is at the top as being a hundred you would like to keep your dietary choices below a 50 because they are less likely to cause an insulin spike or have a glycaemic effect on your sugar. So if you keep your food items below a 50 more often than above 50 you're reducing the fire in your system. So the whole point of taking naltrexone is to reduce the fire in your body, as explained before.  Everything is connected. You can't expect the pill to do all of the work either. Reducing inflammation that you're adding to the system is also part of it.

You can't walk around eating the standard American diet of high carb and high sugar and poor nutritional value and not have inflammation if you're going to continue to feed the inflammation fire, of course, you're asking the LDN or the naltrexone to help with your symptoms.

Sometimes just reducing a lot of the inflammation that way is helpful and it certainly helps to augment what the LDN is doing. I also find that high-quality C-- products, the full spectrum ones are also helpful at reducing inflammation. Using the LDN in combination with the C--, you get the beneficial additive effects. I have patients who have needed to use that combination, and they've gotten their quality of life back.  

Linda Elsegood: it's funny what you were saying about fruits. My mother was in the hospital, and she was a type two diabetic, but her kidneys were in a very poor state, and she had to have insulin. She had quite a bit of insulin three or four times a day. When she was in the hospital, she asked for a banana. And they bought her a banana. And she said, Oh no, I, I don't like eating bananas a little green and underripe. I like them when the skin is going brown, and it's mottled and inside is all nice and squidgy. And they said, no, you can't have one like that because it's going to affect your insulin because it's very, very high in sugar when it's that ripe. That is correct. The nurse was trying to say very nicely, but it is higher in sugar, and I think my mother was thinking, a banana is a banana. The nurse was trying to say, you can have a banana but you mustn't have it when it's overripe.  Because it's too high in sugar. 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: When I tried to talk to patients about that, of course, nobody ever wants to hear they have to make changes and give up their banana or wherever it is they're eating. Everybody likes what they eat, but when you explain it and say, Hey, these are inflammatory, what you're doing is adding to your inflammatory burden.  I'm not saying completely avoid the bananas, but if you know that you had had a banana that day cause you had to have it, maybe look at the bottom of the list to make sure that maybe we're balancing that out and making a choice that has less of a glycemic load than maybe the banana or something else. That's not to say that you should never have banana again, but maybe making choices to balance out your day versus choosing everything above 50 if you reduce the amount. Because they are both 50 and take below 50 reducing the amount of inflammation in your system, which is good for all sorts of things, Alzheimer's, heart disease, cancer risk, all of these things driven by inflammation. And why would you not want to reduce those risks? 

Linda Elsegood:  It's altering the way you look at food. Instead of being a diet which people don't stick to. It has to be a lifestyle change, doesn't it?  So it becomes a habit. You know you have good habits instead of bad habits. 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: Agreed. If you call it a diet, people assume that is a restriction on their lifestyle. If it is health maintenance and it's on a different connotation or inflammation reduction. If you look at it that way, rather than, oh, I'm on a diet. Well, you know what? I'm trying to reduce the inflammation in my body. You'll find that you'll get fewer headaches if you get rid of sugar and carbs, which of course includes bread. There are healthier slices of bread that you can eat, more of the whole grains here.  I was amazed by this too. Everybody's under the misconception that, Oh well I, you know, I'll avoid the white bread cause I know that's not good for me and I'll just eat the wheat bread. It's no better. It really isn't any better. It's like a point or two different on this scale. What you need to do is either do it like a whole grain bread or switch to something that's grain-free, like Ezekiel bread, which has a low-glycemic index. If you're trying to make that effort, there are smarter choices that you can make.

So you don't feel like you're on a diet where you're restricted and being punished. There are ways to explain things.. You just have to be careful about continuing to pile inflammatory product after inflammatory product. It leads to all of the other health problems that I mentioned before.

We're all leading stressful lives, and probably you're not exercising as you should, and not resting as you should, and you're just adding more and more burden to your system to be able to detoxify. Helping your body do its best is certainly a better management tool all around.

Linda Elsegood: Well we've run out of time Kim, can you believe that's 30 minutes gone?

Pharmacist Kim Hansen:  I can't believe you wanted to listen to me. Wow. I'm so happy. 

Linda Elsegood:  Awesome. Thank you so much for having joined us. I really appreciate it. 

Pharmacist Kim Hansen: I'm so grateful to have been asked, and it's my pleasure. If you have any questions, certainly please give me a call and I'm happy to share anything I know. 

Linda Elsegood: Thank you.

At Town and Country Compounding Pharmacy in Ridgewood, New Jersey, owner, pharmacist, John and his team are passionate about low dose naltrexone. They have compounded LDN for over 15 years. And they're committed to compounding high-quality medications and serving as an educational resource for patients and practitioners alike. Visit https://tccompound.com/ or call (201) 447-2020 with any questions or comments you may have. Please email me at ontact@ldnresearchtrust.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.

Cindy - 3rd July 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Linda: Today, my guest is Cindy from the United States who takes LDN for MS. Thank you for joining us today, Cindy.

Cindy: You're welcome!

Linda: Could you tell me when you first noticed that there was something wrong with you? How long ago was that?

Cindy: Well, back in the 90s I was a letter carrier. I worked for the postal service delivering the mail. I noticed I started to have trouble with my balance. My leg would go numb. I would have days where my vision would change. It turned out it wasn't bad. After a couple of years of having MRIs, they were inconclusive, just not knowing the reasons, not knowing what they were. Then the year 9/11 happened and I was still working for the postal service. It was a very stressful time. From thereafter I had a flu shot because they thought I had anthrax. So I had the flu shot and 10 days later I had the biggest flare-up of anthrax that I ever had, and I didn't know I had MS yet. I noticed that I was numb from the waist down. I couldn't see, and I was in the hospital on steroids for a week. I had two months of physical therapy to recover from that. Then they diagnosed me with DNS and suggested Interferon, all those kinds of drugs. I did go on Copaxone for a while but I couldn't tolerate the side effects. So went on and off for years, and then I retired from there. I don’t do that anymore because I just couldn't do it anymore. My primary doctor showed me a book on its medical background and I read it. I went to my neurologist and asked if I could try this and she let me do it. It's been wonderful. There's a big difference in the way I feel every day. The fatigue is gone, the brain fog is gone. I feel so much better. I've had a recent MRI with no progression, no lesions which clearly confirms that this really does work and work very well.

Linda: So before you started LDN if you had to rate your quality of life on a score of 1-10, what would it have been?

Cindy: Probably about a 5 or so because what would happen is I would get up and I would be awake and able to do some things but then around 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock, I would be too tired to do anything after that.

Linda: How easy was it to get a prescription for LDN?

Cindy: Very, very simple. I went to my neurologist and she said that she'd heard of it but she said she would let me try it. So she let me try it, wanting me to stay on my previous medication as well and I decided I wasn't going to stay on and give this a try. I let him do it and I was also taking a couple of antidepressants at the time. I had been on them for years and I found I was able to wean myself off of those as well. So I'm not using those either. Then they wanted me to have another MRI. So I had that and then found that it really did work. I was afraid to almost have it because you want some confirmation. I thought it was a good MRI. There was no further progress.

Linda: What would you say your quality of life is now on a scale of 1-10?

Cindy: I would say it's very good. I mean, you can't do everything, but I think about the hours I spend being able to work all day and being able to be alert enough to get things done. I had that short window of time where I would get things done in the morning but that's not the case anymore. I can do much more than good.

 Linda: What would you say to other people with MS who are contemplating trying LDN?

Cindy: You’ve got nothing to lose. You won't regret it. You really need to try it.

Linda: In your experience, how long did it take before LDN worked for you?

Cindy: It took 2-3 months because I started out at 2 mg and then I worked my way up to 5 mg. My neurologist wants me on 5 mg. I don't know why. It's the switching what she wanted. So I went along with it. She gave it to me, and I think it's fine. I think I could probably sleep better if I take a little less, but after a while, I got over it. I started to feel really good.

Linda: Did you have any introductory side effects at all? 

Cindy: I did have to take it in the morning and now that I have a good MRI that shows that it's working, I don't worry about taking it in the morning. I just can't take it at night. It gives me too much energy.

Linda: There are people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome who do prefer taking it in the morning for exactly that reason. They feel it gives them more energy taking it in the morning than at night because they don’t want to be wide awake in the middle of the night.

Cindy: Exactly and if It does work just as well, there's no reason to put yourself through insomnia.

Linda: What would you say to yourself in the past if you were able to go back and talk about LDN?

Cindy: I wish I knew about it. When I think about all the years I spent taking some of these drugs that actually did some damage to my liver and also had side effects… I wish I'd known about it sooner. I wish I did 20 years ago. I'm going on 18 years now. Two or three years before that, not knowing what I’ve been diagnosed with, but I think about all the years of doing other things, not knowing that there's anything else. I think it's a shame that more people don't know about it.

There are so many choices out there now where there wasn't any before, but I think this was such a good choice that if it's not tied to the mainstream. You’re competing with all these expensive medications out there that claim first and offered first. It's not worth it unless you ask for it. That's what I find to be so frustrating in the US is that you have to ask. If you didn't know to ask for it, you would never be told about it. I think that's something that needs to change.

Linda: I just think it's sad when there are people out there who will inquire about LDN, ask questions and they’ll say “I think it's really good. It's something I'd like to try people with MS”, but they don't want to give it now. They want to wait until they need to take it when things start to go wrong. I always think it's their choice. I don't say this to people, but I would rather take it before I go downhill rather than take it when you are downhill to try and improve yourself. If you can hold the progression, it's got to be a win-win, hasn't it? Rather than try and see what you can get back. What an amazing story, Cindy, and thank you very much for sharing it with us today.

Cindy: You’re welcome! I hope things change in this country where people will know that there's more than they do now.

Linda: We're working hard and we've got you as a volunteer, so that's got to be a win, win too and the best advocates are those people that take LDN. Thank you for joining us and helping us spread the word. Let's make LDN easily accessible for everybody, regardless of where you live in the world.

This show is sponsored by our members who made donations. We'd like to give them a very big thank you. We have to cover the monthly costs of the radio station software, bandwidth, phone lines, and phone calls to be able to continue with the radio show and thank you for listening.

Any questions or comments you may have, email us at contact@ldnresearchtrust.org.  I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.

Laura Dankof, MSN, ARNP, FNP-C 26th June 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Linda Elsegood: Today, my guest is Laura Dankoff, who is a functional medicine nurse practitioner, speaker, and author. She has her own practice, which is a path to health and healing. Thank you for joining us today, 

FNP Laura Dankof: Linda, thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to this. 

Linda Elsegood: Now, we interviewed you about three years ago, and as you well know, so much can change in a period of three years. What has been happening in your practice? 

FNP Laura Dankof: Well, I've noticed in my practice over the last three to five years, that the interest and number of people seeking out LDN as a treatment option has increased. And that's certainly been mostly due to word of mouth, but also some people have actually found me through your website as well.

Many have travelled to meet with me to determine if LDN is an option for them, as they are really frustrated with their healthcare. Sometimes they are not getting answers, or perhaps feel that there's another path that they could be exploring, and they're wondering if low dose Naltrexone is an option for them. 

Linda Elsegood: And we didn't say where your practice is did we?

FNP Laura Dankof:   That is correct. My practice is located in a little town called Westcliffe, Colorado. I used to practice in Iowa for several years in internal medicine, and so I still am licensed both in Iowa and in Colorado. And, I offer virtual and in-person appointments. 

Linda Elsegood: Oh, that's very interesting. All right, so then what would you say your patient population consists of?

FNP Laura Dankof: My patient population is a lot of people with autoimmune disease, digestive issues, hormone issues---et ceteria. Quite frankly, they're generally people who have already been through the conventional healthcare system with a traditional workup, and either has been handed a laundry list of medications or been told that there is nothing wrong with them, and there's nothing that can be done.

And they, of course, are looking for answers. They don't want to settle for that conventional diagnosis and treatment. They want to figure out, with functional medicine, what the root cause is that is preventing them from feeling well. And so, this is where we start to look at lifestyle and what's happened along their life timeline.

And in the process of that, particularly people with autoimmune conditions, such as Hashimoto’s, and other conditions such as fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and even severe depression, people have come to me wondering if LDN would be something that could help them.  And a lot of times I also learn from my patients, and so will look to find what research is available out there and to determine that there is no contraindication, say, for example, them being on narcotics.

Then I would tell them, it's not going to hurt us to try LDN, to see if it helps you. 

That certainly has been true with a couple of cases of severe depression that came to me.  I had never really used it in that way, and so that was one of LDNs use that kind of surprised me, that it did seem to help anecdotally, just from my experience with these patients.

 With one patient Debbie, LDN did seem to help some with her depression.  I used it in one patient with Lyme disease, a lot of cases of Hashimoto's, where we looked at and monitored their antibodies, along with other things, that can certainly contribute to Hashimoto's. You need to look at gut health, hormone balance, detoxification pathways, and a lot of other things.

So it's just not using. Low Dose Naltrexone alone. You certainly want to look at all these other things, and for people that have fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue, one of the things that I'm looking for is if they've had evidence in the past, of exposure to various viruses. That can be a possible indication of one of many contributing factors to their condition.

 For these patients, I may try anti-virials on them.  If that doesn't work, we move on to Low Dose Naltrexone, and for some, I do a phenomenal type of response to it, and I'm always amazed by this result.

Linda Elsegood: Well, it's interesting because there are so many people with autoimmune diseases that suffer from depression.

I always think if you took a healthy person who never had depression, and gave them all the symptoms and the quality of life that some of these people have, you're going to feel depressed by having to cope day after day with these symptoms. So for the people that are listening at home, who might be feeling hopeful that their depression can be helped, in several different ways, what is the first thing that you do if somebody comes to you suffering from depression? 

FNP Laura Dankof: So there are a few things that I'll do. First, I want to get an extensive history on them. Things like, does depression run in the family? What emotional or physical traumas have they had? What's their nutrition like?

Though many people do not know this, gut health is so important to our mental health. So if we don't have a healthy gut, we're not going to have a healthy brain. I may also do a few genetic tests on them looking for MTHFR, and other gene mutations and deficiencies.  The reason for this type of testing is that those mutations and deficiencies can play a role in how people process their nutrients, particularly like folate.  We need to take a really comprehensive look at things.

We also need to know what things have they previously tried that did not work.  And from that, you really need to take a thorough history from each patient and make sure you've ruled the possible contributing factors to their depression, and then decide the suitable treatment.  We need to know if they are using natural herbal remedies in combination with Low Dose Naltrexone, or in combination with their prescription medicine.

I would never just pull anybody off a prescription antidepressant if they are on one, but I may add Low Dose Naltrexone or other nutrients, and nutrients such as B12 and folate and things like that if needed to, but would cross that bridge at that time, and see if that's an opportunity to work in conjunction with those things.

I may be that they will be able to wean down to a lower dose or even off of these medications? So you basically just have to take an individualized approach in each case. 

Linda Elsegood: And how long would it take if somebody came to you that had been suffering from depression for quite a while, and we're currently not taking any medication, for you to do all the testing and begin implementing a treatment plan, such as herb's and supplements, LDN, whatever, before they could start to feel an improvement?

FNP Laura Dankof:  First, I would do the evaluation and workup, and then I’d certainly look at their hormones, gut health and test for the MTHFR gene.  Then after I get results, I will create a treatment plan based on my experience in the few cases of depression that I've had, and see if they maybe want to try that.  In my experience, patients see a difference within the first month of taking it.   Now, I know in some cases, with other conditions, you need to give them a longer time, but generally speaking, when I'm seeing them back in a month, they're starting to notice a difference. Well, then they're excited about it. 

Linda Elsegood: Yeah, I bet. You know, there are people that think if you start LDN, by the end of the first week, you're going to feel better. But anything takes time, doesn't it? And you have to be patient. What dose do you normally start your patients on?

FNP Laura Dankof: I will start them on anywhere from 1.25 to 2.5 milligrams of compounded LDN.  If a patient tells me that they're very sensitive to things I will adjust the dose.   I had one person one time that was concerned about that, and we started her a little bit lower. The maximum is usually around 4.5 milligrams.  I would say that the average range is 3 milligrams of LDN.  I maybe have a few higher, a few lower, but I'd say the majority seem to have best results in the 3-milligram range.

Linda Elsegood:  Oh Okay. And what age range are your patients? 

FNP Laura Dankof: Previously to starting the path to my health and healing practice, I was working in internal medicine. So I would see people generally age 18, you know, on up to the end of life. But I would say people that were generally seeking LDN and other treatments for their autoimmune would be anywhere from age 20 to the mid-fifties.

Linda Elsegood:  Oh okay. And what about now in your new practice, will you do any consultations for children? 

FNP Laura Dankof: Yes. I am trained as a functional medicine nurse practitioner and family nurse practitioner, so I can see the whole life span. So I do see some children as well.  

Linda Elsegood: And what's your experience with LDN in children?

FNP Laura Dankof: I have not used LDN on children yet. I'd say the youngest patient that I have used LDN on was around 17, and that was prior to starting my current practice. So I have not started any children on it in my practice as of yet, not I wouldn’t consider it.

Linda Elsegood: Exactly, that's what I was going to ask. If there was anybody there with a child, close to you, would you be able to do it for them?  So that's very good. Okay. So what about pain? Have you noticed LDN has been a good source of helping with pain? 

FNP Laura Dankof: Yes, it can be.  I would probably say that my greatest experience using it for pain, would it be in helping people with fibromyalgia and their pain symptoms? But certainly, as we know, we must not use somebody on a narcotic. I've had some people come in and asked me to prescribe it, and they were on a narcotic, and I said, well, you've got to be weaned off that first before we can start that. I don't want him to have any kind of withdrawal symptoms, so you just have to be careful about that.

But otherwise, I'd say my primary experience with chronic pain symptoms, is in patients with fibromyalgia.  

Linda Elsegood: And have you seen any people with skin conditions that you've used LDN on? 

FNP Laura Dankof: No, not that I can recall right now. I think I maybe had one gal that had idiopathic urticaria, which is an itchy skin condition. And what I would say there is that a lot of times when somebody comes in with a skin condition, I'm looking at their gut microbiome, and they may have small intestinal bacteria overgrowth.  I know LDN can potentially help in that way as well to help support the immune system, so I have prescribed it for that. So yes, if we're looking at skin conditions, a lot of times those conditions can relate back to a digestive condition so then we may use LDN in that way.   

Linda Elsegood: Yes, I mean, there were a lot of people who use LDN for psoriasis, with very good results, but that isn't a quick fix either.  I've had people tell me that their skin has stayed just as flaky and patchy for six months, and then they start to have fresh skin appearing, and all the scaly bits go, which is just totally amazing. But it is very hard if you've been taking LDN for months and you haven't seen any benefits. It must be hard to continue having faith that it's going to do something for you when you've been taking it long-term.

FNP Laura Dankof: Yes, and I would say that what I generally tell people is that I recommend they stick with it for six to nine months, to see if they begin to see some benefit if they aren't somebody that responds quickly. And I would say the majority of people; they do want to stick with it because they have kind of come up empty-handed from other directions.

And this is—an avenue of hope for them, to see if this is something that will help them. 

Linda Elsegood: Hmm. And it must be very satisfying to be a nurse practitioner where people have been to so many other doctors, nurses, whoever can prescribe for them and have come up with nothing. You know, to actually be able to help these patients, you must get quite a buzz from it.

FNP Laura Dankof: It's very rewarding and humbling as well. You know, as a functional practitioner; you really care about helping people. And of course, trying to get them the answers that they deserve and that they're looking for, I don't take that mission lightly at all.

And I try to do my best to try to help them in any way that I can, and as naturally as possible, to support their bodies in a healthy way.  Certainly, LDN is just one of the tools in my toolbox to do that, and I will forever be grateful to the first person that brought LDN to my awareness, who is no longer with us.

She was a woman with stage four breast cancer, who came to me asking me if I would prescribe it. At that time, this was many years ago, I didn't know anything about it. And I thought, well, I need to look more into this. And so, had it not been for her, I might not have ever known the benefits of LDN and what it can do, and to see how many people have benefited from it, 

Linda Elsegood:  It's really so rewarding to hear that you are able to listen to one of your patients. It’s “kudos to you” for listening to your patient. You know, there are so many doctors that are so busy. I'm sure patients always recommend different things they would like to try, but doctors don't always listen and act upon what the patient says, so that's really good. 

FNP Laura Dankof: Oh, thanks. I think 90% of figuring out what's going on with the patient is listening. If there's something we don't know about, that doesn't mean it's not true and doesn't have value, and it's up to us to hear them, and for us to look into what they're saying, and see if there is merit and value in what they're bringing.  This day and age, with the internet, people are searching everywhere, so it's up to us to try to figure out and decipher what is relevant or not. 

Linda Elsegood:  Yes. So here in England, the doctors have 10 minutes per patient, and that includes getting up from the waiting room, walking into the doctor's exam room, and coming out.  So if you've got somebody who has an autoimmune disease which has a myriad of different symptoms, what can the doctor actually achieve in 10 minutes?

I mean, 10 minutes is nothing, is it?

FNP Laura Dankof: Very little. That's why quite frankly, many of us that have worked in the conventional medical setting, know that the healthcare system is broken, and you cannot begin to figure out anything and listen to a patient in that amount of time. So it's like, what are your top symptoms, and how are we going to either run a lab or give you a medication in that short amount of time and out the door?

I've never. I've never practiced that way.  I've just kind of bucked the system a little bit, I guess, and kind of flew under the radar. And now, now that I have my own practice, as many functional practitioners do, I don't take insurance because it dictates too much of that. And it allows me to spend a lot more time with patients as well.

You know, my initial visit with a patient is going to be 90 minutes. And follow-ups, depending on the situation, could be 30 to 60 minutes or more. So, that's the beauty of having your own practice and don't take insurance. And that's why a lot of functional practitioners don't, because it dictates those very things about the volume of patients you need to be seen in a day.

Linda Elsegood: Well, that's pretty good. So you really work it out and give the patient the amount of time that you feel they need. 

FNP Laura Dankof: Absolutely, because I always worry if I don't give them the time to tell their story, what am I missing, and are we going to go down the right path with their healthcare if I don't hear their journey there?  You know, like what has happened to bring them to this point that they're sitting in front of me now.  And so it is important that I hear that because there are so many clues that help put the pieces of the puzzle together. 

Linda Elsegood: And how long of a waiting list do you have? 

FNP Laura Dankof: Currently people can get into my practice pretty quickly because I just started my virtual practice in the last six months. I had been working in internal medicine, large corporate healthcare system for many years prior to that. So right now, it’s pretty easy for people to get in to see me for a consultation. 

Linda Elsegood: Well, that's really exciting, isn't it? So, the telephone consultations that you give, if they need lab work done, how do you go about doing that?

FNP Laura Dankof: If they're in Iowa or Colorado where I'm licensed, we can either run it through Lab Corp with their insurance, or I use a discounted lab called Ulta Labs. The discounted lab charges a fraction of what patients would pay running their labs through LabCorp.  So, if you have a high insurance deductible, or it's not covered, you're better off going through a discount lab. And if they are in another state other than Iowa or Colorado, we can use Alto labs where they can do some testing. They can even order it themselves.  If they need a prescription for LDN, I have to see them face to face once a year, if they're in a state other than Iowa or Colorado where I'm currently licensed.   They certainly could come to see me face to face, even if they live in a different state.  Otherwise, I would be talking to them more in a consulting role, I could not diagnose them in another state.

Linda Elsegood: Well, that's really interesting. So would you like to give us all your details? 

FNP Laura Dankof: Yes, of course. If people want more information, they can find me at wwwdotpathtohealthandhealing.com that's “path to health and healing.com” and there you'll find more information. I write a health blog there. You can kind of read my story, and why I'm so passionate about taking a functional or natural medicine approach to healthcare, along with the different kinds of conditions that I treat, and how to schedule an appointment or contact me directly. 

Linda Elsegood: You've got me intrigued. Now tell us why did you go down the path of functional medicine? 

Laura Dankof: Okay. So for many people who go into functional medicine, there was a health crisis in them or a family member, and that was certainly true in my case.  I had a daughter born with a hereditary blood disorder.

And she was very sick when she was young.  She ultimately had her spleen and gallbladder removed, and they put her on antibiotics for an extended period of time, which then led to skin conditions, eczema and so forth. So, I took her off the antibiotics, against medical advice, because of what it was doing to her.

And we healed her gut, and healed her body, through natural medicine, because the answer conventional medicine wise was to give her steroids and immunomodulating agents that would have increased her risk for cancer. And it was just going down a very deep, dark rabbit hole with her at a very young age.

And then on myself, I had thyroid and hormone-related issues when I was in graduate school and did not want to go down that pathway either. And so I started really diving deeper into functional medicine throughout that whole journey with her and with myself.  

Linda Elsegood:  Wow. I’m sure all your patients are really pleased, not that you had those obstacles, but that you chose to become a functional medicine nurse practitioner. It has been absolutely amazing speaking with you today Laura and I hope you continue with your practice and success, and we wish you all the best.

FNP Laura Dankof:  Well, thank you very much, and I've enjoyed talking to you again Linda.

Linda Elsegood: Okay, thank you. 

FNP Laura Dankof: Thank you. 

Linda Elsegood: This show is sponsored by Mark Drugs, who specialize in the custom compounding of medications, assuring that the client gets the proper prescriptions for their unique needs and conditions. They work with practitioners, integrating knowledge and treatment of experts to create comprehensive health plans.

Visit Mark drugs.com or call Roselle (630)-529-3400. Or Deerfield (847)419-9898.

Any questions or comments you may have. Please email me at contact@ldnresearchtrust.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.

Dr. Anna Cabeca - 8th May 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Dr Anna Cabeca is a board-certified gynaecologist and obstetrician from Georgia in the United States. She trained at Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia, then went on to also be boarded in integrative medicine, as well as anti-ageing and regenerative medicine. She is a pioneer for women's health, to solve the problems that so many women suffer with as a part of hormone imbalance; to do it naturally, and to regain control of our health to the best of our ability.

As many women age, muscle flexibility decreases and fascia tightens, with the result of discomfort with intercourse. In 2000 Dr Cabeca started using low dose naltrexone (LDN) in topical form for such patients, and developed a formulation of LDN, arginine, and pentoxifylline, that she calls “Joy Gel”. The vasodilators in it improve blood flow, moisture, etc.  It is applied to the pelvic floor prior to intercourse; or on a daily basis for relief from pelvic pain syndromes, vulvodynia, vestibulitis. Joy Gel includes LDN 2.5 – 3.0 mg per 0.5 ml and is measured into a syringe. A large pea or dime-sized is about 0.5 ml.

Dr Cabeca also uses LDN in capsule form for clients with difficult insomnia, typically with a very slow titer-up to 4 mg; and those with Hashimoto’s, autoimmune diseases, or suffering from toxic mould syndromes.

At around age 38, Dr Cabeca underwent menopause, looked for answers, that reversed menopause completely, and she conceived at age 41. At age 48 she and her family underwent a traumatic incident, and despite being on hormones, she became menopausal again. At that point, she tried a ketogenic diet but had side effects. She studied and hypothesizes that as protective neurotransmitters decrease with age, eg estrogen and progesterone, the ketogenic approach is not complete.  In her book The Hormone Fix, she writes about the keto greenway and the greens; adding on the alkalinizers, the high micronutrient-rich micro foods, and microgreens, like broccoli sprouts, and alfalfa sprouts; and using kale, beet greens, chard; lots of deep dark, deep leafy greens. Using the best to get the body into ketosis, thus using ketones for fuel. And checking urine to get an alkaline urine pH. She has developed a test strip to urinary pH and ketones, to help understand what’s working and what’s not.

In the book is a 10-day quick-start detox, a 21-day menu plan, chapters on stress and vaginal health and hormones, and functional testing, and quizzes, and inventories to do. She has programs and menus on her website as well. Once stabilized, clients may be able to reduce the medications they take.

In The Hormone Fix, she notes that it’s insulin, cortisol, and oxytocin are the major hormones that give the quality of life. Stress reduces oxytocin, and depression follows; healing comes through nutrition (25%) and lifestyle (75%). The book has a chapter on stress, developed through personal experiences and traumas. When cortisol’s up with stress, it lowers oxytocin; and you get into a critical phase of low cortisol and low oxytocin - and that feels like burnout.

The Hormone Fix is available from Dr Cabeca’s website: https://book.thehormonefix.com/get-the-book and that link includes a bonus offer.  The book also is available wherever books are sold – Barnes & Noble, Books-A-Million, and others; and on Amazon, where it’s #1 in menopause.

Summary from Dr. Anna Cabeca’s LDN Radio Show from 08 May 2019. Listen to the video for the show.

Keywords: LDN, low dose naltrexone, vulvodynia, vestibulitis, hormone, insomnia, Hashimoto’s, autoimmune, toxic mould, ketogenic diet, The Hormone Fix, insulin, cortisol, oxytocin

Pamela - Hashimoto’s - 9th Jan 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Linda Elsegood: Today. I'm joined by Pamela from the United States. You take LDN for Hashimoto's. Thank you for joining us the day, Pamela.

Pamela: Thank you for having me.

Linda Elsegood: So first of all, could you tell us your journey to getting that ultimate diagnosis of Hashimoto's?

Pamela: Absolutely. Um, I had spent probably a good portion of the previous 20 years just not feeling well.

Various chronic infections, poor gut health, um, just being unusually tired. And so after lots of research, I ended up going to a natural pathic doctor here, um, that I discovered and was diagnosed with Hashimoto's and began taking, um, desiccated thyroid medication for that. And I saw some, um, improvements, but I knew, you know, it still just wasn't doing the trick.

To get me to my optimal health and through my research and my support groups that I was a member of on Facebook. Um, I. Came into the information about LDN and started doing my own research and asked my doctor if that, you know, what his views were on it. And he was very surprised, but I had found it and said that he had used it in the past for many years with fantastic results and, um, prescribed it to me.

And that was probably about six or nine months ago.

Linda Elsegood: Well, you had quite a journey, didn't you, uh, being ill for so long without a diagnosis? I mean, how did that make you feel?

Pamela: Oh, it was extremely frustrating. You know, I, I felt like every doctor that I had ever been too kind of dismissed me as a hypochondriac or that I was making a bigger deal. Um. Or that I was exaggerating or it was all in my head, and it was very depressing.

It was, um, you know, it was, it was hard to fight up against that. And especially when you don't have unlimited resources to spend on all of these medical tests. And after going to various, um. Specialist and just racking up thousands of dollars and in the laboratory test and still have no answers. You know, it was just very frustrating and depressing and which I think compounded the problem even more 

Linda Elsegood: Oh, definitely.

So what was your next step after you done your own investigation?

Pamela: Well, I took the information that I found back to this natural doctor and, um, he ended up prescribing LPN to see if in conjunction with the natural thyroid medicine if I would have better results. And it was pretty amazing. It was, um, I would say within a week my sleep improved dramatically because I've had.

Insomnia since I was probably about 25 years old and I've taken Ambien for it, which I really wanted to get off of. So my eye, just the dramatic difference in my sleep and my joint pain. Um, my gut health. Things had been returned, um, almost to normal, you know, with little bouts here and there, but dramatically different than it had been an over the past 20 years.

Linda Elsegood: And did you find that you could reduce the amount of, um, natural thyroid you were

Pamela: taking. Um, you know what, actually, yes. Just recently, um, due to insurance I went to, I have a new doctor who strongly believes in LDN, and she couldn't believe I had found a doctor and had been taking it already.

And after my first blood tests, this was just about a month and a half ago, um, she lowered. Um, I went from three greens of fibroid of that nature. Three today down to one and a half.

Linda Elsegood: Oh

Pamela: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm waiting to go back for return file, you know, after labs, after making that adjustment. And I may be able to lower even more, which is awesome.

Linda Elsegood:  Amazing. So how do you feel now? What's your quality of life as compared with before?

Pamela: Um, you know what, actually, no comparison to the way that I felt two years ago before discovering what I, you know, that I had Hashimoto's and still even after taking this high ride way better with the LDN, just huge improvements.

I, you know, I tell everybody I know because there are so many people suffering from chronic. Um, autoimmune issues. Again, you know, I think people are in the same boat that I was in. Just lost, not able to find the right doctors who take you seriously. Um, not knowing the doctors, just not knowing what tests to do or what to look for or about LDN at all.

Linda Elsegood: and don't you think, even if you. Or a person who's never suffered from depression and you're a bright, bubbly person when you have to live with a chronic condition, and people don't believe you or understand or know how to treat it. That in itself is very depressing, isn't it? Do you know what I mean?

Pamela: I've always been a very positive, um, very positive person. You know, my sister suffered from depression, so I've, you know, I know what that's like to have chronic depression and that wasn't me. But after 20 years of having a sinus infection and joint pain and stomach problems, and, you know, just not finding the right support that even really.

Where do you feel like they don't even believe you? Um, it's very, it's discouraging, and it compounds when you already aren't feeling good, and you don't have to, like, you know where to go to find answers, you know, when you know something is off in your body, but you don't know where to go with it.

Linda Elsegood: Mm. So if you had to rate your quality of life on a score of one to 10.

Before you started the LDN, what would it have been?

Pamela: I would say maybe about a four. Um, and, well,

Linda Elsegood: yes. And what it is now?

Pamela: Now, now I would say an eight or a nine. You know, I still have minor joint pain and, um, a little bit of. Um, stomach issues, but I'm hoping that the longer that I'm on this, you know, that it's just going to keep getting better and better, which I feel like it is.

And I feel like my mental, um, state has greatly improved now that I finally feel like I have doctors who are hearing me. And no, you don't. Not that you want to be diagnosed with anything, but that was a huge relief, just like, okay, I, you know, I know it wasn't in my head. And now. At least my doctors know that.

Linda Elsegood: Mm-hmm. So you'll sleep. You said that you have a better quality of sleep. How many hours would you say you're sleeping a day?

Pamela: You know, the past few months, it released eight hours a night, which has never ever happened. Normally I would go to sleep and sleep for about two to three hours. Even taking the strongest dose, the Ambien, I would still wake up and be up the majority of the rest of the night, you know?

So I really only could look forward to two or three hours of sleep at night.

Linda Elsegood: And that doesn't make you feel too good the next day, either does it?

Pamela: Oh, absolutely not. No. You'd feel like you'd been out drinking for two. You can't think straight, and you have no energy. 

That's my biggest. The satisfaction that I get an LDN and I absolutely know that that's what it is. Because, um, I had run out for about a month and me, you know, with getting compounded, you know, I waited, and sure enough, everything crept back up, all my symptoms, my sleep, and so I will never run out of LDN. In the future.

That's for sure that that is my priority now. Well,

Linda Elsegood: I continued to improve in for 18 months, so I think you hopefully will see even further

Pamela: benefits. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I, you know what? I really, I really feel like that. I feel like this has just been a, a miracle. Do you know? I'm like, how? I don't understand how it's not.

More known even by medical professionals. So I spread the word everywhere I go,

Linda Elsegood: Oh, that's fantastic. Well, long may your success with LDN continue and hopefully your still keep improving. And thank you so much for sharing your experience with us. Pamela. Oh,

Pamela: thank you for taking the time to talk to me. I really appreciate it.

Appreciate being able to get the word out.

Linda Elsegood: Thank you.

Pamela: All right. You have a good day.

Linda Elsegood: This show is sponsored by our members who made donations. We'd like to give them a very big thank you. We have to cover the monthly costs of the radio station, software, bandwidth, phone lines, and phone calls to be able to continue with their idea of the show, and thank you for listening.

Any questions or comments you may have, please Contact Us.  I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.

Dr Baldeep Bains MD - 23rd Jan 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Linda Elsegood: Today, my guest is Dr Bains, and he is the younger brother of Dr Harpal Bains, who you may have remembered we had on the show a few months ago now. Thank you for joining us, Dr Bains. First of all, can you tell us your background and about you and all the wonderful things that you've done to date. 

Dr Baldeep Bains: I grew up in Malaysia as my sister did, but then I was educated in the UK. I then went to university in Scotland and went to med school in Scotland. While I was in medical school, I had this mad idea that I wanted to join the military and before I knew it I’d signed on the dotted line and probably half of my life to the military. Upon finishing university, I'd spent a bit of time in Virginia. I joined the Navy, the general Navy. Upon finishing the officer's training, I spent about three years getting deployed in nice places, some not very nice places. As a Navy doctor, I’d look after old Marine commanders.

For the first five years after graduation, I spent most of my time doing the two operations. Upon completing them, we have to decide what you're going to do. I initially thought of a surgeon. I started off training to be an orthopaedic surgeon. I spent about four years doing orthopaedic surgery. I enjoyed it up to a certain extent. Then I realized that I was reaching a point where I wasn't passionate about surgery. I think I was passionate about something a bit more so I decided to quit surgery and joined general practice. I did my GP training and I qualified as a GP in 2009. 

My wife got pregnant in 2014 and when I was deployed for six months and I got back just in time before she gave birth. I think reality struck me that I can't continue with military life, I was having a family.

So I left the military in 2015 and then worked as a GP for a short while before my sister suggested that I should join her practice which is where I am now. So I've been at my sister's coming close to a year and a half now and working alongside her is where I heard about LDN. 

I've got to say it was quite a paradigm shift for me because when she first spoke to me about what she was going to do, I thought she was absolutely bonkers. I'm not going to lie to you all. We use nice guidelines and when she was talking to me about functional medicine... we had many arguments about how she was practising medicine and I was like, what are you doing? Are you crazy? Are you mad? Are you dead? I've got to say that we didn't see eye to eye initially with what she's doing. I think fortunately she persevered and she agreed. Even if I could see the way she does things and the way functional medicine works. I’m by no means trying to criticize the general practice. She’s done a fantastic job and I actually appreciate what my colleagues do but there's a certain extent to which we can actually help them and they're quite stuck with the reason I didn't blame them because they are guided by guidelines. A lot of the people who sit in the committees of guidelines are people who've got some vested interests elsewhere. I'm not gonna mention names, but I can understand the restrictions they have and why they can't. 

Yeah. It's quite hard for them to go explore other avenues. That's another way of doing things. I'm really glad I can introduce it as well because had I not been introduced, I think I would have been missing out on a lot, I love my patients. So I'm actually finding it harder and harder to be a GP now because of what I do know.

Linda Elsegood: What would you say are the main conditions that you are treating in the clinic?

Dr Baldeep Bains: I see the lion's share of the male patients. A lot of the male patients that we come across do come in with quite prominent symptoms of testosterone deficiency. That's one of the things, but I'm seeing a lot of patients with some degree of autoimmunity as well. I've seen patients with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, chronic fatigue, Crohn's disease, bowel issues, etc. Increasingly I'm seeing more patients with autoimmune and bowel type issues. 

Linda Elsegood: When a patient first comes in to see you, how long is the initial consultation? Do you do lots of form-filling, questionnaire-answering with all of them? What's the procedure?

Dr Baldeep Bains: Most of the patients, we're looking to get one of their main symptoms, what their diet’s like, how their condition is affecting their activities of daily living. We can be asking quite a lot of questions. We spend anywhere between 1-2 hours with the patients. We try to read the evidence in order to find the root cause. Again, we will see a patient and we will treat the symptoms and the majority of the time that's what we do. But they keep pulling back the same issues again and again. If you don't look into food it takes time to look into a root cause, you can't just expect to spend five minutes with a patient talking about their history and find the root cause. You need to go into a lot more detail, which is what we try to aspire to do; just get into the nitty-gritty and hope to find what might be the root cause for a lot of these symptoms. 

Linda Elsegood: What other testing do you use? 

Dr Baldeep Bains: The majority of the time we will carry out a comprehensive blood panel. It’s one of the baseline things we do. So in a certain comprehensive blood panel, it would include the likes of a full blood count. You carry out a comprehensive biochemistry analysis looking into things like your liver function, kidney function. In our practice we do quite an in-depth hormonal evaluation, looking into quite a few different hormone levels and trying to see if anything that needs to be addressed. Beyond that, if a person does have a lot of bowel type symptoms, we will potentially do something along the lines of a comprehensive, thorough analysis, which is not a simple as microscopy. It gives you a lot more information. We would offer that if your bowel symptoms are quite prominent. I think we might do as well if something known as SIBO testing, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, complaints of quite significant gut symptoms. We'll do something along those lines. We do allergy testing as well, and we use Cyrex. Personally, I feel it's one of the best kits out. I think it has been extremely comprehensive and they will probably them give us an overview as to what is going on, to keep eating the same foods and which is stimulating an inflammatory response. I think that that's the first few stages. Plus, I would normally offer a test when I first see a patient.

Linda Elsegood: When you ask patients about diet, are they honest with you as to what they eat or drink or do they tell you what they think you would like to hear?

Dr Baldeep Bains: That's a tricky one. I like to think my patients are honest with me. I think the majority of the patients we have are quite honest because by the time they come to see us, they're quite desperate. They've tried everything. I think they like to be as open and honest as they can with me. I think they are honest because of how they're feeling and their determination to get better.

Linda Elsegood: I was only asking because my mother lived with us for a few years. Unfortunately she, she got cancer and died. Before that, we would go and see the doctor and the doctor would say, “have you taken salt out of your diet?” I used to hide the salt because she was at the age where she used to use lots of lots of salt. I would sit there and I'd say, “you put so much salt on it, mom. It looks like snow, doesn't it?” And butter. “Have you cut down on the butter?”, “Oh yes. I don't use it as much.” “Mom, you use as much butter. It looks like cheese because it's so thick” but she didn't want to upset them. She wanted to please the doctor by letting them think she had done what she was told, but she didn't use, to tell the truth. I now have to hope that when I get older, my daughter doesn't come with me,

If we just continue treating symptoms and not the root cause, that root cause could be creating a lot of damage. It's vital to find out what that is. That is what's so good with functional medicine.

Dr Baldeep Bains: I completely agree with her. I think we actually have the luxury of time, which is what a GP doesn't have. I've got 10 minutes per patient, and in that time I've got to get a history from the patient, I’ve got to sort dates, I've got to get ready for my next patient. It’s especially complex with complex patients and complex patients are increasing in numbers. I've seen more and more patients with more and more complex problems coming in. I don't think treating symptoms is the answer to that. 

Linda Elsegood: You're seeing more and more people who have chronic conditions. What would you say is the difference between now and 40 years ago? Is it because we're eating different, or due to the fact that food is treated differently? When I was a child, everything was cooked from scratch. There were no additives. I hardly know how to pronounce some of them, let alone know what they are. What do you think is the cause? 

Dr Baldeep Bains: Reverse back 40-50 years ago, you're not seeing the problems that we had in those days. Compared to the number of solid issues we have nowadays it is just phenomenal. I've got no doubt it's to do with our diet. It's all about the fast food, and then you can get your hands on processed food, anything that's microwaveable, low phosphate and nothing else. No one has time to do things, you want everything in an instant. The busy lifestyle, the stress... life is a lot more stressful now because we've got a lot more demands and you've got everything in your face due to social media. I think stress has got a much more significant influence and the fact that we are actually doing less as well. Spending huge amounts of time in front of computer screens and TVs. Get yourself out, playing, get some sunlight, get exposed to sunlight. I can say my childhood is very different from the childhood experience now. 

Linda Elsegood: You were talking before we started and I'm sure you're quite an outdoorsy person, but what is your diet like? I mean, are you gluten-free, dairy-free? Are you a vegan? What is your diet? 

Dr Baldeep Bains: I am none of those, but I am quite careful about what I eat. I limit the amount of processed food I have. My kids have significantly reduced their intake of sugar. I use just for taste, such as half a spoon in my tea or in my coffee. I don't have any fizzy drinks. I drink water or milk. I'm quite fortunate in the sense that I don't really have many intolerances so I can actually cope with gluten. I've got a very narrow relationship to gluten. If I'm going to define myself, I've significantly reduced them on process over refined carbs. If I do have carbs, it traditionally would be half a plate or a quarter. I do love exercise and I need energy. So I still have carbs. Probably half my plate is protein. But I'm currently 43 and I feel fantastic. I train hard and I can sustain my mind. A craving I've got no real issues. I don’t have any fatigue issues, I'm not obese. I’d like to say that I'm in quite a decent shape, I think it's working for me. I don't eat junk. I've read a lot about intermittent fasting and I probably do that about two or three times a week. I try to fast for 16 hours and then tried to eat in the daylight hours which has been shown to be quite effective. I suppose if you say any dietary routine, but that's been quite recent, probably 2-3 weeks ago. I don't find it too hard to do.

Linda Elsegood: We’ve nearly run out of time, but very briefly, for parents who want to make sure that their children grow up as healthy as possible, what would you recommend to do diet-wise with children? Because it's very difficult with all the crisps and sweets and biscuits and advertising on television, how do you go about trying to establish healthy habits?

Dr Baldeep Bains:I think you get a vibe from them whilst they’re a baby. You've got to introduce them to good food and fruit and vegetables. We try to make everything from scratch, making home-cooked fruit. 

Linda Elsegood: You don't buy Robinsons or anything along those lines?

Dr Baldeep Bains: Nothing whatsoever. They drink water. That's the only thing they seem to pick. Once in a while, my daughter has fresh fruit juice, but apart from that, it's water and milk. That's all they have. I think trying to develop habits from the start and you're trying to give them a good breakfast. I try to avoid sugary cereals. I think even a traditional English breakfast as well, they'll have sausage, which I do try to get good quality sausage just for kids. Try to make a lot more home meals and try to get them less processed food. It's not easy on junior kids, even seven done. Life's extremely busy at that time. Everyone's quite time poor. It doesn't take a lot to make a decent kitchen. We know what we need to be doing and we should practice it. 

Linda Elsegood: We've come to the end very quickly. If patients would like to come and see you, how do they get in touch with you?

Dr Baldeep Bains: They can visit our website, www.harpalclinic.co.uk We have two practitioners there: my sister and I. I have a lot of patients with her too. You get the benefits of two practitioners and hopefully, when you come and see me, you can appreciate the frustrations and a lot of patients as well. I can understand what's going on and I can sense the limitations that they face and be able to give them a bit more of a balanced view. I think one thing we pride ourselves on is ongoing support. Most of my patients have an open email conversation. They can email me anytime and I will get back to them and I would advise them. I think on a lot of occasions patients find that quite reassuring. At the end of the day, I do things which are not very conventional. They didn't think their potentially own GP should be asking them, why are you doing such a thing? A good example is I prescribed LDN to one of my patients and I had a bit of a nasty email from a Polish GP asking me, what am I doing now? I think once the people are educated, once the GPs are educated, then you can get a GP alongside the patient and the GPs can work together with a patient and ultimately what we're doing, what we're looking for is to make the patient feel better. That's the aim. 

Linda Elsegood: That's fantastic. We'll have to have you back another day and thank you very much, Dr Baldeep for being our guest today. 

Dr Baldeep Bains: Thank you, Linda.

This show is sponsored by Dixon Chemist, who are experts in LDN at associated treatments in the UK. Dixon Chemist is the most cost-effective for LDN in all forms within the UK and Europe, maintaining safety standards far in excess of what is required. Why would you choose to get your LDN from anywhere else? Call 01414046545 today to speak to LDN experts. 

Any questions or comments you may have. Please email me at contact@ldnresearchtrust.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.