LDN Video Interviews and Presentations

 

Masoud Rashidi, PharmD - LDN, ULDN for Pain - 2022 Conference (LDN; low dose naltrexone)

 

 

Edyta Biernat-Kałuża, MD, PhD - Pain - 2020 Conference; Bahamas (LDN, low dose naltrexone)

 

 

Akbar Khan, MD - Cancer - 2020 Conference; Bahamas (LDN, low dose naltrexone)

 

 

Kim Hansen, RPh - Closing - 2020 Conference; Bahamas (LDN, low dose naltrexone)

 

 

The LDN 3: To Purchase with discounts before 1st September 2022 Go to ldnresearchtrust.org/ldn-book-3 for full details

 

 

LDN Webinar 18 May 2022 (LDN; low dose naltrexone)

LDN Questions Answered Live by

Pharmacist Dr Masoud Rashidi - LDN Specialist
Dr Sato-Re
Dr Mathewson

Sponsored by Innovative Compounding Pharmacy icpfolsom.com

 

 

Pharmacist Michelle Moser, LDN Key to Success (LDN, low dose naltrexone)

Review: Michelle Moser has 35 years experience as a Pharmacist and is very experienced with the utilization of LDN (Low one Naltrexone). She volunteers her knowledge as an a LDN specialist with the LDNresearchtrust.org. Her 21 minute presentation covers how they supply a thorough service to their customers, with advice and council on dosing and related help for a variety of conditions. She explains how LDN can be used along with most other drugs, even opioids if the LDN is micro dosed and immediate release. All autoimmune conditions can benefit from LDN.

Review by Ken Bruce

Linda Elsegood: Welcome to the LDN Radio Show brought to you by the LDN Research Trust. I'm your host Linda Elsegood. I have an exciting lineup of guest speakers who are LDN experts in their field. We will be discussing low dose naltrexone and its many uses in autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. Thank you for joining us.

Linda Elsegood: Today I'd like to welcome back our guest pharmacist, Michelle Moser who's also one of our LDN Specialists. Thank you for joining us today, Michelle.

Michelle Moser: Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's certainly my pleasure.

Linda Elsegood: So we're all keen and eager, and as people can see, you've put “Keys To Success” up there, so take it away.

Michelle Moser: Thank you, thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity to share some information with everybody today that really goes over not only how patients can find their success, but how providers can also enhance patient outcomes. So here we go. The first thing I want wanted to address is that low dose naltrexone plays really well with other therapies. It's not necessarily medication that is used all by itself all the time, and that is a question that comes up from not only patients, but from providers as well, wanting to know, well, the patient is taking this this and this. Can I use LDN? And the answer almost always is yes, and the main reason is that even if we are using or prescribing opiates for patients with chronic pain, depending on how those opiates are being utilized throughout the day, LDN might still be an option. Very few times is it that LDN is not something you can start. It doesn't have very many drug interactions, so LDN is brilliant for a wide variety of indications. And as we know, as so many more autoimmune diagnoses are being found every year, I think now there's something like 100, 120 some, maybe even 140 autoimmune disorders, low dose naltrexone is a wonderful fit for most of those patients.

But we also have other dosing, such as very-low-dose, which is 50 to maybe 250 micrograms. And then we have ultra-low dosing, which stems from the oxytrial study where we were using only microgram dosing, one, two, three, four micrograms, alongside short-acting opiate medications to help reduce the need for those opiates and replace it with low dose naltrexone. Because we know that low dose naltrexone not only helps to intermittently block those pain receptors, but also helps to reduce not only inflammation and those pro-inflammatory cytokines, but we can also see that low dose naltrexone helps to modulate the immune system. And there's a wide variety of studies that have been published to emphasize exactly those parameters. So if you're needing those, either reach out to the LDN Research Trust or your local compounding pharmacist. Sometimes we have those available, as well some of the other things that we use in our compounding lab and compound on literally a daily basis, because low dose naltrexone is used for a lot of inflammation issues, autoimmune, chronic pain.

We can also use low dose naltrexone for some of those other nuanced areas such as traumatic brain injury PTSD, depression, and anxiety; and we've heard from a wide variety of wonderful practitioners during the LDN Research Trust conferences on those specific areas. But when we're able to use other medications in combination with LDN; I don't mean like in the same capsule or in the same liquid, I just mean side-by-side dosing; we can see that oxytocin, especially in a nasal spray, is incredibly helpful to help build that sense of connection, to help alleviate depression and grief, as well as go after some of those imposed pain areas. And oxytocin is one of those medications that is very easy to administer in a nasal spray, even in sublingual drops. But it is very sensitive to heat, so we have to be very careful about what dosage forms we're using. We don't use oral capsules with oxytocin. The stomach acid kind of wipes out its activity. So we need to find alternative forms for that.

But also if you're needing low dose naltrexone for dermatology issues then we can combine it with mast cell stabilizers like ketotin or either other anti-inflammatories, even tranexamic acid, to help decrease some of the redness, in that dermatology issue. And even the autoimmune dermatology products, we're very careful about the bases that we put low dose naltrexone in so that we can control exactly how deep we want that therapy to go. So not every base is going to work, because we really need to individualize that therapy for that condition.
Of course we use low dose naltrexone in a situation with ketamine, which is a non-opiate pain medication as well. And because ketamine works on different receptors than low dose naltrexone we don't see the withdrawal. We actually see the enhancement of that pain control. So there's a a lot of options here.

And lastly, I wanted to address synapsin, which is this wonderful combination of medications. It's a ginseng derivative along with an NAD that again helps to reduce the central inflammation in the brain. And when we use it in a nasal spray, of course that helps with the neural transmission directly to the brain.

As a pharmacist, when a patient is new to low dose naltrexone, or even comes to us because a provider would prefer to use our pharmacy, we emphasize that low dose naltrexone is not a cure-all drug. It actually doesn't really cure anything, but what it does do is it helps to trick the body to work on its own pathways, and much more effectively, and much more efficiently.

So when we set up the expectations, we want patients to know that this isn't like taking something like an aspirin or a Tylenol. It's going to take a little while for this medication to provide full benefit. And we also know that low dose naltrexone isn't for everybody. But when we start low with the dosing and slowly increase, that we can actually see patient outcomes in greater than 50, actually approaching 80 to 90 percent of the time, which as a pharmacist, I've been a pharmacist for over 35 years, I don't recall any other medication providing that high of patient outcome, and that high patient benefit. So we also let patients know that this is a therapy that we're going to start with a low dose, slowly increase over time, and when we find their happy dose, which may be 4.5 milligrams, might be less than that; in some situations we might actually split the dose and take some in the morning and some at night; again completely individualized therapies. We let them know that most respond in about 60 days, so you got to give it some time. And with that I try to emphasize that most of the time, by the time patients are finding low dose naltrexone either through their provider or through the suggestion of their pharmacists or other chat groups, that they have been years into their therapy without great outcomes, without great success. They've used maybe even a wide variety of providers, a wide variety of alternative therapies, and now they're going to give low dose naltrexone a shot. So don't expect everything to just magically go away in a week. That's not going to happen. And in some situations, even when we're dealing with the same disease state - so let's say we're talking about fibromyalgia patients - some respond very quickly, others do take about four to six months to respond. Even with Crohn's disease, we've heard from Dr Leonard Weinstock during the LDN Research Trust conferences, that most of his patients really respond somewhere around the four-month mark. So that is very important, so that we make sure that patients are compliant on their therapies, and that they understand that the pharmacy and the provider will be checking in with them to make sure that they're still doing well, and then if there are any questions, that come up, we can answer those right then and there rather than answering them after they've stopped their therapy.

One thing we've also learned over the years with low dose naltrexone is that often less is more. So increasing the dose frequency beyond twice a day is not necessarily very helpful, and certainly going above maybe even six milligrams isn't usually as effective as lower doses, especially when we're dealing with autoimmune conditions. Now if we're dealing with weight loss, then we then we move into a little bit different realm. But again that therapy is taken once or twice a day, so again it's about treating that individual and making sure that that individual is heard, is listened to, and is able to express their goals so that we can effectively meet those.

And I wanted to throw this in there too, that we had a gal who slowly increased her dose, and when she was at 3 milligrams she felt great. She got up to 3.5, she wasn't feeling as good, and she went up to 4 and she still wasn't feeling very good. So we bumped her back down to 3 and then we slowly increased with 0.1 milligram dosing, which is itty-bitty, but sometimes even that 0.1 milligram makes all the difference in the world. And her happy dose was 3.1 milligrams. So it was great, and that's where she stayed, and she's been at that dose now for a couple of years. We also let patients know that yes, the pharmacy will check in with you periodically, usually around week 3 or 4, but don't wait for us. If something comes up, please get a hold of us, please let us know how we can help you, because we'd much rather answer those questions sooner than later, or have them stop therapy altogether, and really have to start all back at square one. So when we're slowly increasing these doses, we try to make it as easy as possible for the patient to understand. So whether we're dealing with capsules or liquids, we've built these great handouts so that patients understand how to slowly increase their dose without taking literally a handful of capsules at a time. That isn't necessarily the best way to go about it, because then they have to wash it down with a lot of water, and if dosing is at bedtime, that could very much disrupt their sleep because they've got to get up in the middle of the night to use the restroom. So we provide these handouts, and we color code them, because we provide two different strengths in two different colored bottles, and we emphasize that as we are reading from left to right rather than using the columns top to bottom. Then we're going to be able to use a little bit of out of one bottle or the other bottle concurrently as we slowly increase that dose. But we also have liquids that we use, and this liquid starter kit includes a lot more color, mainly because we slowly associate the color with the gradation, and this is actually a twice a day dosing starter kit that we use with a liquid base, because liquids are a lot easier to manipulate and find those doses that are going to be specific to them. Not everybody uses doses that are the same in the morning or at night. Sometimes one end is higher than the other.

Also, using an oil suspension is going to give a longer dating for the patient. Their bottle is going to last longer than 30 days, and that's also very pleasing to the patient, because they're very cost conscious, as they should be, because the majority of the time these medications are out of pocket expenditures. We offer an almond oil base, an olive oil base, or an MCT oil base which is derived from coconut oil. We can splash it with a natural flavor like tangerine, lemon, mint, cinnamon; and then in some situations we might actually add a little natural sweetener like a Stevia. W at this pharmacy really steer away from artificial sweeteners because we find that sometimes that actually increases inflammation, and we're also really careful about the oils that we are using. These are not cosmetic or traditional food-grade, these are bases that are backed by the United States Pharmacopoeia with a national monograph behind those.

We also are really careful about the fillers that we put in our capsules, and we work again with that individual to ensure that we're using a filler that is going to best meet their needs. All of the capsules are immediately released. We do not use any extended-release product, because that does slow down the absorption. A lot of times there's absorption issues to begin with, and certainly if we do extend the release of the naltrexone, we are actually bypassing and negating the science behind how naltrexone actually works at that receptor site. Most of the time we're using a microcrystalline cellulose, but we do have other fillers as well, so again we let them know we try to make this as easy as possible. But if it is at all confusing when the patient goes over their medication, we ask that they call the pharmacy. Let's go over those questions right away to make sure that they are getting the best information for the greatest success possible

So with our patient follow-up programs, we identify those individuals who have recently received their medications, and we kind of look at where they're at in their in their dosing schedule. We give them a call or we send them a text, “Hey we'd like to check in with you. We want to make sure everything is going well”. And we also realize that not all patients are available 9 to 5 when the pharmacy is open. Sometimes we need to schedule conversations outside of business hours, and so we make sure that that is available to a patient so that all of their needs are being met. We check in with them at least once during their first month, but we always reiterate to the patient if something comes up, get a hold of us, and this is how. We have an email option, we have a texting option, and we have a phone call option as well.

We also let them know that as dosing adjustments are being made. sometimes side effects might crop up. and so we let them know exactly what those are. Sometimes it is vivid dreams, but often when we have vivid dreams we know LDN is working, because it's helping us get into that REM sleep cycle. But if those vivid dreams become disturbing or change our sleep patterns, then we want to move the dosing schedule. We also let them know that if there's a little bit of a headache, how to alleviate that, and how long that those side effects might persist, and when they should expect those to go away. And if they're having issues with perhaps constipation, we explain that as well, because sometimes even these very small side effects can allow a patient or cause a patient to back off of their therapy and abruptly stop.

Answering the questions as they come up again are keys to success. This is how we allow our patients to communicate so that we are acknowledging what is going on with them, and they feel heard and understood. Anytime that we can alleviate side effects only allows for a better health program and for greater success, and this is when really their prescriber or their provider becomes the hero in all of this, because they suggested a therapy that is finally working for them, maybe even after years or decades of them searching for a really good way to feel better, perhaps even feel normal.

When we enhance compliance, of course we see better outcomes. When a patient is heard, when they are allowed the time to explain what's going on with them, they take ownership of their own care, and in our experience at our pharmacy, we find that when a patient takes ownership over their care, they're more likely to then be fully engaged and follow other processes or programs that may be in place by the provider. Often that leads to less phone calls to the provider office, less insignificant or issues that could be dealt with over a simple phone call, maybe even less visits to the emergency room mental health, which is always a concern, and especially in the last couple of years with stress and anxiety and depression, we see that even using low dose naltrexone can be beneficial in helping some of those areas where patients may not have been using low dose naltrexone as a primary concern, but they realize that oh my gosh, these other symptoms have disappeared too. And that's always a great benefit. We see increased patient compliance, and always better patient outcomes.

But truly, because low dose naltrexone is such a low-risk, low-side-effect, it's a low dose and honestly, it's a very low cost medication. That safety margin is much better than most commercially available prescription medications. The minimal drug interactions make it a prime candidate for the use of low dose naltrexone in the majority of health concerns and diagnoses, and quite honestly, we have over 30 years of research behind low dose naltrexone. So if you're looking for great science in using a medication that is beneficial for many many people not just in the short term but over decades. This is where we really say, “Why not try low dose naltrexone. It's a fabulous way to really get after some of those chronic issues that maybe will enhance a lifestyle, and be able to allow somebody to cross things off of their bucket list.

So here we are. I want to thank Linda for the opportunity to chat with everyone today and certainly, if there's any questions that I can help with, please let me know. This is my personal email, and these are questions, and my cell, as well as my store phone number. So I'm happy to help. Thanks so much Linda.

Linda Elsegood: Thank you! Any questions or comments you may have, please email me, Linda, at linda@ldnrt.org I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.

 

Dr John Kim, LDN Radio Show 2016 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Linda Elsegood: Today I'm joined by Dr. John Kim from Georgia Integrative Medicine Clinic in the US. Thank you for joining us today. 

Dr John Kim: Oh, you're welcome. It's my pleasure and honour to share this wonderful therapeutic known as low dose naltrexone. 

Linda Elsegood: Thank you. So could you tell me your qualifications, please? 

Dr John Kim: I am a physician originally trained in family medicine, then Chinese medicine, integrative medicine, preventive medicine, public health. I think before I went to medical school, I was doing basic science research in biochemistry, and I was a Howard Hughes Medical Research Fellow for pharmacology. 

Linda Elsegood: And when did you first hear about LDN? 

Dr John Kim: So this interesting part is that I have gone through two residencies, two fellowships; including an integrative medicine fellowship with Dr Andrew Weil at the University of Arizona. Those times spent in training I'd not heard of LDN. I did not learn about LDN actually until a patient of mine came to me and said, “Hey, listen, I have a thyroid issue, and I've done this research, and I just can't get a doctor to prescribe me LDN or low dose naltrexone. Would you at least do the research for me? Because you're one of the few doctors that listen to patients. And you have an open mind?” So I said, sure, let me do the research. And when I did the research, I was very surprised by the fact that this has been well-documented and utilized extensively since Dr Bihari’s use in New York, and all evidence seems to indicate very little risk and all possibilities of benefits.

So I told the patient, yeah, sure, let me go ahead and I'll prescribe the medication, and it's going to be a bit of an exploration on both parts. And amazing things began to happen. Not only her thyroid issues began to reverse and over several years not only her thyroid issues reversed, but she conceived and delivered a baby.

And so. That person made me think a lot about the possibility of what else is possible with LDN. Me being a cautious practitioner I had to go very slowly for the next about five, six years; and I would target other patients with thyroid conditions. And I began to see a pattern that I can't do with other medications. Because with all the medications in conventional medicine, we can replace thyroid hormone in different forms, but I don't have a possibility or ability to reverse illness, reverse thyroid disease. We just let it go until it goes into total failure, and you just up the dose. And in this case with LDN, I began to see patients whose doses can be halved, and other patients would basically become drug-free. And then other cases I would see the antibodies related to hypothyroidism lowered in number.

Linda Elsegood: And did any of your patient's experience negative side effects when first starting LDN?

Dr John Kim: In the beginning, none of the people really experienced any of the side effects, but as I began to use LDN more in-depth, I began to see side effects. One of the things I've run into is that typically the LDN low dose naltrexone in the literature is considered between 1.5 and 4.5. But I've noticed that in patients with what I call low endorphin reserve, where a patient has been sick for a long time, patients not feeling well for a long time, their daily activity is compromised; in those patients, I've seen that the 1.5 milligrams can have a paradoxical effect. Patients can not sleep. You tend to create insomnia. And I think that's well documented. In patients with PTSD, the LDN also can cause vivid dreams related to the PTSD; or further, create trauma. And in such cases, I began to experiment with lower doses. So I would begin using 0.5 milligrams or even lower. Now today I start even at 20 micro micrograms, and then I'll do a rapid ramp to get them to 1.5 milligrams. 

Other side effects that I've seen is some nausea. I have patients that could not even tolerate one microgram of low dose naltrexone; they just feel really, really bad and in pain. So again, I think that their endorphin reserve is quite low and they’re not tolerating this dose. 

Linda Elsegood: And you were talking about thyroid conditions. Have you prescribed for other autoimmune conditions now? 

Dr John Kim: Yes. Oh, you know, it's thyroid Hashimoto's thyroiditis. One of the first things that I started treating when I saw the effectiveness of LDN for treating thyroid conditions - I said, Hey, if it works for Hashimoto's thyroiditis and the mechanism is through correction or modulation of our immune system, why not? Why wouldn't it be a shift in theory, work for Graves’ disease? So I began to treat patients with Graves’ disease.

Graves' disease is very interesting because the response to LDN in Graves' disease is maybe somewhat lower than with Hashimoto's thyroiditis. I have several patients who are doing very well, and they are in remission from Graves' disease with using nothing more than low dose naltrexone.

As I can understand the mechanism by which LDN works I decided that maybe we can do more. Again, the literature also helps us. So I began to treat patients with MS and we just got some amazing results, including one patient who is actually in remission from MS. She almost was not able to walk, and now she's climbing Mount Kilimanjaro and travelling all over the world and being able to enjoy a very high quality of life. And then other rheumatological conditions, such as psoriatic arthritis and many, many other conditions. 

One thing that I really noticed is that through my practice I'm beginning to see LDN beyond just what we accept in literature. For example, I have some patients with dementia and Parkinson's disease and LDN I believe has helped to mitigate or slow down, or some cases reverse - not fully - but some effects of dementia and Parkinson's disease.

Linda Elsegood: What about cancer?

Dr John Kim: Cancer is one area that I think - I recently accepted a position with Miami Cancer Institute with the Baptist Health of South Florida, and the reason for that is that in my current private practice, I think that my experience with autoimmune diseases have been extensive and I've seen excellent results with low dose naltrexone for treating autoimmune conditions. But for cancer, to be honest, I just don't have enough patients coming to me who have cancer, and the patients that I've treated with cancer, I am not able to say that it works or doesn't work with cancer.  What I have seen is studies, especially by Dr. Berkson in New Mexico, who is combining the low dose naltrexone and alpha-lipoic acid. So I began doing that as generally part of my treatment of cancer, but I'm looking forward to my new position where I will be able to see more of those patients.

Right now, I have developed a bit of reputation to help patients with autoimmune conditions. I see a lot of patients with autoimmune and different kinds of autoimmune conditions, and that has really helped me to understand the function and utility of LDN for autoimmune diseases. So what's interesting to me is all the cases where I am using LDN may be somewhat different from other people. One of the things that I've utilized LDN for is the gene for insomnia because one of the things that LDN does is to increase REM sleep, decrease sleep disruption; and also enhances people’s ability to fall asleep. And that's one of the reasons I think, unfortunately for the patients with PTSD, that doesn't work as well, because these may get them back to the conditions or memories that are very traumatic because it's very, very vivid. 

The other things that I’m treating are things like tinnitus, migraine, endometriosis, and infertility. What I'm seeing is that LDN has multiple chemical functions. So one is, its modulation of proinflammatory cytokines through the clear cell in the central nervous system. And that's the primary response to invaders if you will, in our central nervous system. And as such LDN is a very valuable tool. 

But in addition, it seems like LDN has other functions, such as it seems to have a very calming effect on the nerves. So LDN can be, I think, used very effectively for treating neuropathies of all different kinds. Also, as I mentioned earlier, it's almost like an adaptogen all by itself, so I often use LDN to treat patients with a mood disorder because having more endorphins seem to make patients respond better to the conventional and nonconventional treatments of depression and anxiety. Because it's kind of hard to feel depressed when you're feeling good, and endorphins give you that edge that feels good. So while you feel good, it's difficult for you to feel either anxious, or feel good and depressed at the same time. 

Linda Elsegood: What do you do with patients that are already on strong opiate painkillers when they come to you? 

Dr John Kim: So those patients are very interesting. About 50% of my practice is treating patients with severe pain using neuro-anatomic techniques, and I don't prescribe any narcotics at all. But we have a good track record of helping patients to get off narcotics, and in this case, we use a phenomenon of low dose naltrexone, utilizing microdose naltrexone, also known as ultra-ultra-low dose naltrexone. And in this case, we use micrograms of naltrexone. Again, as I said, the usual dose that people use of naltrexone is about 1.5 milligram to 4.5 in LDN amounts. But it's very interesting because you can take microgram doses, which is a thousand times less than milligram doses, and there are studies that demonstrate that a microdose of naltrexone results in better pain relief, and it also lessens the side effect.  I have a couple of patients treated with this ultra-low dose of naltrexone, and they’re doing great. Great, great, great response. Because I have chosen not to prescribe for narcotic, they still go to their pain doctor, and the pain doctors are quite pleased because usually if you just give narcotics alone, the doses have to go up, up, up, up, up, and that's when you have overdose phenomena and people get in trouble. But in this case, what happens is that with the combination of the low dose naltrexone and the neuro-anatomic approach to pain that I developed over 20 years, we can actually reeducate their central nervous system and lower the dose of narcotic, while the patient is reporting much-improved pain. Such techniques, actually, I think to warrant a lot of research oncoming because of the obvious problem with the narcotic overdose that is going on in our country. As a matter of fact, there's medication right now that is being studied combining ultra-low-dose naltrexone and narcotic medication. It's not been approved yet, but there'll be interesting how the Oxytrex will work for patients. 

Linda Elsegood: Do you keep them on the ultra-low dose, or do you increase it over time? 

Dr John Kim: As their narcotics amount goes down, then I march it up because, with low dose naltrexone, I think that there is a benefit. I think the key is to start the patients depending on their narcotic history and narcotic use history and their functional assessment of the endorphin reserve status, and then trying to match that clinically. And then generally I march them up. LDN really has been an invaluable partner for me to get my patients well, 

Linda Elsegood: You also mentioned alpha-lipoic acid. What do you use as a protocol? Do you have a general protocol for it?

Dr John Kim: Absolutely. Dr Berkson's protocol of using LDN and alpha-lipoic acid is published; anyone can look it up. I believe that he uses IV though, so I researched more talking to pharmacists, and it seems like that protocol has a side effect that people can pass out. Also, if the GI system is working, I feel like that is the first thing that we should do.

So with alpha-lipoic acid, I generally like to utilize the controlled release form or slow-release form, and that also depends on the person's ability to take alpha-lipoic acid, because if you give 600 milligrams to everybody, some people who are very sensitive to it may pass out or get hypoglycemic symptoms because alpha-lipoic acid can be a powerful agent to lower blood sugar levels in diabetic patients. It also helps with neuropathy. I know that alpha-lipoic acid and LDN are a very powerful combination to reduce inflammation in the nerves. 

And that makes it interesting because most of the medications that we use do not necessarily work well in what we call a high-hydrophilic or -hydrophobic environment. A hydrophobic environment means that it's not easy for charged molecules to enter and do its job. LDN seems like it can penetrate very easily. Alpha-lipoic acid also is fat-soluble, so those two are very important. I believe that Dr Berkson’s protocol for utilizing alpha-lipoic acid may have to do with the function of keeping the blood sugar low, therefore allowing the tumour growth to be inhibited. But I think that again, a lot of studies need to be done. And that's one of the reasons I have accepted this new position in Miami for the Miami Cancer Institute. And I'm hoping that as the director of integrative medicine I will be given permission to explore the possible roles of using low dose naltrexone and other proven therapies in a system-wide manner. 

Linda Elsegood: Do you use vitamin D as well? 

Dr John Kim: Yes, of course, of course, I do use it. If it's low, I do supplement it. It's not a part of my protocol. Part of my protocol for cancer also includes fat-soluble vitamin C, that would be ascorbyl palmitate, because otherwise, you have to go through the vitamin C injections. I think that there are multiple responses you can get from vitamin C. So for example, high doses of vitamin C injections, that's been documented by Dr. Jeanne Drisko in the University of Kansas medical centre - I think that that research shows that the vitamin Cs can help the formation of hydrogen peroxide. And then the hydrogen peroxide goes after the tumour cells. In the dose that I'm using, I don't believe that vitamin C dose is high enough to do that. So it doesn't replace the need for IV vitamin C treatment. But again, it has to do with my current practice setting, that IV therapeutics is not very easy for me at this time. And by using the fat-soluble vitamin C, what I'm doing is overcoming the required amounts that can be taken in by the body.  There are no formal studies that fat-soluble increases the amount yet, but it makes sense to me. I think that fat-soluble forms of therapy can be extremely valuable.

Oh, another example of that is S-Ethyl glutathione where the ethyl group is attached to glutathione. Multiple people have tried to play with the different formulations, but I think that the actual chemical alteration to make the molecule more hydrophobic is probably cost-effective and the best solution for some of the molecules, to encourage them to go where they need to be going to do their job. 

Linda Elsegood: And you were saying that you weren't taught about LDN in medical school. Do you think that's likely to change anytime soon? 

Dr John Kim: I don't think so. I think about integrative medicine and how it is now being discussed, or at least covered more in elite medical schools. So if you look at the distribution of integrative medicine in the United States alone, really it's reserved for what I call first-tier medical schools like Harvard, Vanderbilt, Duke, Yale. But it has not really penetrated a lot of the regular schools with the exception of maybe the University of Arizona, where Dr Andrew Weil started the program. Even there, I think medical students have a lot on their plate. I don't think they get enough about nutrition. I think that the medical education system is arcane. What I would like to see is breaks in mores in residence level, where after doctors graduate medical school, they get trained. That's where the doctors learn to be doctors.

What I've done with my recent book, in some sections, I've even published the patients’ lab results - not patient's identity - but their lab results, so that they can see after treatment with LDN that the TSH would start low, and then the TSH would normalize. T-3 would be high and then it would normalize and then it would also see the antibody levels all responding. 

Linda Elsegood: I understand that there is a medical school in Oregon that actually teaches LDN to the medical students. So that has to be a start, probably. 

Dr John Kim: It has to start somewhere. I think that for me that integrative medicine means working with patients, and that has really helped me to learn about an LDN. The nature of my practice is about 50% dealing with intractable pain. The other 50% is dealing with patients who have complex problems that they really can't get answers on. And what I found is that LDN doesn't cure everything. I think that it's dangerous to say one thing can do everything. Like, if you do LDN, you don't still need to practice good medicine. 

But LDN can be an amazing tool for autoimmune diseases especially. A lot of the tools that we have are not benign tools, or you cannot use steroids forever, you cannot use immunosuppressants forever. And I think that LDN also helps you to understand the nature of the disease. I'll give you an example. I had the longest time thinking why, how can LDN work for HIV? So when I began to read more about HIV, I found out that HIV actually is not strictly an immune deficiency condition. It's really immune derangement, meaning that the immune system is not functioning the way it's supposed to be functioning. So similarly we can postulate, we can guess we can think about cancer. Is it also possible that a cancer patient's immune system is deranged? It's not doing what it's supposed to do?

So in my practice, in the beginning, when people have an autoimmune disease, we would just use LDN. And then inevitably we would have patients for whom LDN isn't good enough. It's not doing the job by itself. So what I have done is more research, more reading, and more talking to other people, and I found out something very fascinating. What I found out is that if you have an autoimmune disease, it makes sense to check the person's autoimmune profile. And what I mean by this is not by doing conventional testing of things like C reactive protein, doing and an ANA check, or ordering an immune profile. And of course, I do that. Part of my assessment is to screen for their developing other autoimmune conditions before placing them on LDN. 

But if the patient does not respond to LDN, I think that sometimes, doing additional testing, either allergy testing to see if there’s an allergy to both respiratory allergens -  things like fungus, trees, grass, as well as food allergens. Both IgE and IgG can make sense, because again, if we're looking at autoimmune diseases as immune derangement, then you're looking for places that immune system is not functioning the normal way. I think the LDN is a powerful tool, but as I said, there are patients who don't respond to LDN alone. 

One patient had a double rheumatoid condition, and LDN alone wasn't doing it, acupuncture wasn't doing it. So what I finally did is testing on the food section, and the patients stopped eating that food; and I used immunotherapy to reteach the body to forget, to let go of the allergens that person had. And the amazing thing happened. Both of her rheumatologic diseases disappeared to the point when she went back to her rheumatologist and said, Oh, we made a mistake. We're sorry. And the patient said, Hey, you mean to say that my lab and my x-ray were all conspiring together? That's unbelievable. That's not likely. I think it's more likely the LDN plus the immunotherapy that Dr Kim asked me to do, is working together. And it's resulting in this remission. 

Linda Elsegood: You've mentioned your book. Would you like to tell us the title of the book and when it will be available? 

Dr John Kim: I'm hoping that the book will be available in December. The press release went out some days ago. The title of the book, I put it as “Understanding Low Dose Naltrexone Therapy” and then its subtitle is “A Cure For All”. I mean the illnesses of cancer, and chronic diseases.  I have to contact my old editor and see if she is available to take the job, because she edited my first book and she did such a great job, so I want to see if she can edit this book as well.

Linda Elsegood: Do you expect that you're going to be moving? Can patients still come and see you before you move, or are you fully booked? 

Dr John Kim: I think patients are still coming to see me, and my understanding is that - when I interviewed with them, they assured me that even though I'll be in the cancer centre and seeing mostly cancer patients, I will not be forbidden to see other patients. I'm really hoping that it will be the case because I feel like the autoimmune approach that I've developed can help patients, and especially patients who are not good candidates for conventional medicine in terms of long term steroid use, or the immunotherapy itself can be very harsh to some patients. So I'm hoping that I would be allowed to do that. 

And the other part is that I have this idea that some forms of cancer may involve the host, the patients. Developing all that I said about the immune derangement, that maybe their immune system is obsessing over something else, maybe food allergens; or they have an undiagnosed autoimmune condition. I've seen that once you develop cancer, you stop looking because cancer is such a deadly condition, you want to zone in on that. What I'm hoping to do is be allowed to do other observations, observe their autoimmune conditions. It can be more formal in terms of formal research, or it can be just the clinicians’ observations.  

I  remember a long time ago in London, the cholera epidemic was controlled by a Mr Snow or Dr Snow, that did not know the mechanism. He just used epidemiology to isolate the wells that were likely to be responsible for cholera. He didn't know the exact mechanism, but all he had to do is shut down those wells, the old water pumps, and then he was able to help. The field of medicine relies on collaboration and cooperation, and that's part of the reason I've accepted the position in Miami. But I think there's still room for one person to make an

observation, then through communication through books or through organizations like your organization, to reach out and ask these questions that no one else has asked. 

Linda Elsegood: Thank you. And thank you very much for your time, and sharing your experience. 

Dr John Kim: Thank you for the opportunity.

 

Any questions or comments you may have, please email us at Contact@ldnresearchtrust.org.  I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.

Pharmacist Tarek El-Ansary, LDN Radio Show 10 July 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Linda Elsegood: My guest is Tarek El-Ansary. He's the owner of Carmel Valley Pharmacy. He's also a doctor of pharmacy. Thank you for joining us today. Tarik 

Dr Tarek El-Ansary: yes, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. 

Linda Elsegood: Could you give us your background, please? 

Dr Tarek: Yes, certainly. I've been a pharmacist for almost 21 years. I graduated in 1998 from the University of Pacific School of Pharmacy with a doctorate in pharmacy. I worked in different chain pharmacies for the first eight years. And then I went on to purchase my first pharmacy, an independent pharmacy, and it was retail on need. We barely did any compounding.  I went on to buy a few more pharmacies. And we had a lot of success with that. And then about five years ago in 2013, I started Carmel Valley pharmacy and I wanted to do something different, and, start with compounding and learn all about integrative and functional medicine that goes along with compounding. And that has really opened me up to many, many more opportunities and tools in the treatment options that are available, and it's just been, it's just been an amazing ride and process.  

Linda Elsegood: wow. How would you describe your pharmacy now? 

Dr Tarek: So my pharmacy now is really just focused on customer service and patient care. We do, we're a hybrid pharmacy, which means we do both compounding, and then we also do the retail commercially available pharmaceutical products that are made by the pharmaceutical company. So we do both. And it's a walk-in. People can come in, and we do also offer delivery and mailing, and a lot of consultations. We spend a lot of time, between myself, the pharmacist and the patient, and also interacting with the doctor, getting them involved. And we really do practice the triad of medicine, which is the relationship between the doctor, the pharmacist, and the patient.  

Linda Elsegood: We are moving towards a pharmacist in the UK playing a role. Normally if you wanted any medical advice, you got it from your doctor. You didn't get it from your pharmacist, but it's still not working. How it is working in the States because you there, you just go to the pharmacy and speak to the pharmacist, but the pharmacist doesn't relay that back to the doctor.  So we don't have it working.  It's a bit dysfunctional. Really. It's not as good as what you do so 

Dr Tarek: well, It doesn't work that often unless it's a type of pharmacy like I have when other pharmacies I've been at, which just retail me, it's still, we're still really behind on that also. 

Linda Elsegood: Okay.  

Dr Tarek: Yeah. It's just the type of practice I have now is different, and so now that triad works really well. 

Linda Elsegood: And it's so good that you look into supplements and lifestyle and things that maybe the doctor wouldn't have the chance or time to go through. 

Dr Tarek: Absolutely. You know, with the seminars I attend, I've learned so much about supplements, and unfortunately, the pharmacy schools and the medical schools are just not getting into that and teaching anything about supplements even to this day.

And so with the seminars, I'm learning a lot and doing them on myself, starting them on myself and my family members, and seeing a significant difference in our own health. And so it's giving me the firsthand knowledge to recommend for my patient. And the feedback has been really good and positive, which further reinforces, you know, an ???  to be able to carry on a message to patients who need supplements and specific areas of problems that they have.

Linda Elsegood: When did you first hear about LDN? 

Dr Tarek: Uh, I think it was a seminar I attended. I go to PCCA And a A4M seminars, at least a couple of times a year just to learn the new things and keep up on my knowledge. And, probably about three or four years ago, the first time I heard it brought up at a seminar and in it was, it just sounded, it's really exciting and amazing.

At the same time, a few prescribers in my area started prescribing it and then I was able to spread the word to other prescribers that were open to doing compounds and new things that they hadn't heard about. And so we've seen it really spread since then.  

Linda Elsegood: and you're in California. So I was just thinking about the supplementation.

Do people in California need to take Vitamin D, or do they get enough sunshine? 

Dr Tarek: I would say they still need to take vitamin D. I would say just about everybody. The average level of an American, even including California is 15 and anything below 50 is considered deficient in vitamin D. Actually if you're not above 80, you're not considered optimal. And so you don't get a lot of the preventative effects of vitamin D like preventing cancer and stimulating and really helping to have a healthy immune system. And so by just being at 50, all you're doing is helping to keep your bones healthy, but you're not really helping with the immune system.

From what I've learned, it's for every thousand units you supplement per day, you bring that level up by ten, so if you're at 15 and you take 5,000 units a day, you're going to be at about 65 so you're going to be above the 50 Mark, but you're still not going to be optimal. So that kind of gives an idea of where it is, and we do see people getting tested when they are taking and it kind of, it really does follow along those lines. 

Linda Elsegood: So how long have you been compounding LDN?

Dr Tarek: We've been doing it for probably about four years now. We opened about five years ago, a little over five years ago, and we've been doing compound LDN for the last four years.

Linda Elsegood: What forms do you compound in?

Dr Tarek: Oral,  topical and transdermal. 

Linda Elsegood: Okay. So. When you say oral, is it capsules, tablets? 

Dr Tarek: Yeah, 99% of the time we have done it as a capsule. There are a few that we've done in liquid for small children that can't swallow capsules. And then also if we want systemic absorption, we can do it in transdermal effect, where we put in a light that's on base. So it gets absorbed really well into the systemic circulation. And then topically, we've used it for scars and, and, or itching type skin reactions. We've seen great effects because usually scars and itching and like psoriasis or, or rash, that's part of the immune response. And since we know LDN has a significant effect on our immune system. We’ve been seeing it having a great effect.  

Linda Elsegood: let's 

Dr Tarek: use topically. And then with transdermal always seen it used when we want to insist into the systemic circulation, especially with small children who are on the autistic spectrum. They're getting it absorbed really well and seen great effect. 

Linda Elsegood: So do you have any case studies?

Dr Tarek: Yeah. Yes, I do. I had seen them when they were presented at some seminars. I do not have them handy. I have seen case studies done specifically just as an example, I think it was the glutathione 20% mixed with LDN, 0.5% in a transdermal cream if used with autistic children on the spectrum, and a significant effect that was. That had just by applying that each night by the parents and just rubbing it between the shoulder blades and giving the child a message at nigh with the cream and the parents, the feedback has been really good. And we have about five or six small children who get on a regular basis at our pharmacy and the feedback and the parents had, they tell me that it's made a huge difference in their children's behaviour and their life.

Linda Elsegood: So how old are the children when they starting at the end? What age are they diagnosed normally with, with autism? 

Dr Tarek: It definitely ranges and we've seen as small as four or five years old. I would say probably the most common age is around 10. I think there is a level of confusion and denial on the parents' part of not understanding what is going on with the child's behaviour when they start to present with autistic behaviour around the age of four and five that I think there are a few years where they're just not understanding what's going on and to actually take them to a physician who can make a correct diagnosis.

Linda Elsegood: Yes. I knew a little boy who was autistic. A terrible shock for the parents, I must say. 

Dr Tarek: We have a nephew in our family that is dealing with it and there were a few years of just not understanding what was going on before the diagnosis was made. 

Linda Elsegood: Yeah. I just have to tell you, we, in the first documentary, we did the LDN story, we interviewed a little boy called Jacob, and he's a piano protege. He can just play Beethoven just without looking at music, and he's so talented, but he was all. I would say it was, but of course, he still is, but he doesn't show signs of it anymore. But when he was small, he wasn't responsive to his parents. He didn't want to be hugged. He didn't want to be cuddled. And as he grew older, he just used to fight them the whole time, and regularly he used to smack his mum across the face.

And one day after he'd been on LDN, she was always saying to him, you know, I love you, Jacob. I love you, Jacob. And he just didn't respond, apart from slapping her. But this particular day she said, I love you, Jacob. And he looked at her, and I think he was three or four, and he said, “I love you, mommy.”

And she called her husband, and she said, quick, quick, get the video camera. I want to ask him again, you know, say it again and see if he'll do it, and we will record it because he may never in his life. Say it again. You know, I want to catch it. And he just went from strength to strength—a totally different child. Absolutely. Amazing story.

Dr Tarek: I think there's many like that with LDN.

Linda Elsegood: Yes. Exactly. It gives you hope, but like you were saying, it's the confusion to start with, isn't it? To get that correct diagnosis. So, yeah. Is important. So with your capsules, what filler do you use? 

Dr Tarek: There are two different fillers that we use. Typically we started with avicell, which is just very clean a filler that has no side effects, no inflammatory or reactive effects on, especially specifically to patients who have sensitivities. So we never compound with anything that would contain lactose or gluten or corn starch as a filler. But now there's been a few naturopathic doctors who. They loved the idea of compounding using the filler ginger root, because of its properties, especially with the gut health and just a soothing effect it has on the gut.

So that has been one of our common fillers now with the LDN, and other meds that we compound is using ginger root as a filler. 

Linda Elsegood: Wow. Do you know, I've not heard of that before. How interesting. Sorry, ginger. Tell, make a note of that. Wow. I love ginger. 

Dr Tarek: Yeah. Yeah. It's a great idea to mix it with their LDN.

Linda Elsegood: but of course, being a capsule, you swallow it so you wouldn't notice anyway.

You would use that. It was ginger. 

Dr Tarek: Yeah. You don't get the bad taste. Yeah. 

Linda Elsegood: Oh, bad taste. I love the taste of ginger. 

Dr Tarek: Well, it can, it can have some good tastes, but I think the ginger root powder that we, you know, that we're using its a clean powder, but it does have a little bit of a bitter taste.

Linda Elsegood: does it?

Okay. So what would you say your main patient population is that use LDN? Would you know that? 

Dr Tarek: Yeah. Uh, I would say it's adults over the age of 18 mostly getting it in capsule form. The most common dosing that we see is 2.3 or 4.5 milligram where the, you know, the vast majority is definitely below 4.5 milligram due to the fact that most studies show that the modulating effects of the receptor happen below 4.5 milligrams and we just, I don't think there are enough studies out there to know what happens when we go above 4.5, and I think the consensus is there's not really a need to go above 4.5 for most uses and that we see the effect, the response we want below 4.5 without the side effects. And so that's what we mostly see and the uses, it just ranges significantly between just gut issues, any autoimmune issue, neurological issues and pain. And on and on, it just seems like they keep coming up with a medical diagnosis that they try it on and they see good effects and the side effect profile, even though it's listed as sleep disturbance or vivid dreams. In speaking to my patients, and we have a few hundred different patients getting it each month. The feedback has maybe been one or two has actually told me that they thought they had a, it affected their sleep, but then again, you know, there's a lot of things that could affect our sleep.

So it could have been a coincidence. 

Linda Elsegood: Yes. It seems to be a drug that is well tolerated. I'm must say from my fifteen years of experience of talking to doctors and pharmacists and patients. The people who mainly tend to notice side effects are people that are ultra-sensitive to drugs, and it's usually people who've got fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome. Those people seem to be so ultra-sensitive that they have to start very, very low and increase very, very slow. People get there if they're patient. But yeah, if you find it is too much for you, it's definitely an idea to have a very low dose and increase slowly. 

Dr Tarek: Yeah, and that's a great point. And the patients who do require the slow titration up, we do the 0.5-milligram capsules, and it's anywhere from every three to seven days. They start to increase from one capsule a night to the second capsule to go to one milligram, and they slowly increase as they can tolerate it, so they get their desired effect, and then we stay at that dose.

Linda Elsegood: I mean, there are some doctors who prescribe up to six milligrams, some even go higher, but there are quite a few that try six. And with the chronic fatigue, there are some doctors who actually use double dosing, night and morning. And it's reported that those patients get more of the boost of energy, which is very helpful in those cases. What about thyroid patients? Do you have many of those on LDN? 

Dr Tarek: We do, specifically when they have autoimmune, when the underlying cause of their thyroid issues is autoimmune, which I think that the large majority of them, and you know, specifically Hashimoto's. When the doctor OD is open and familiar with the uses of LDN, and they do use that on those patients, we're able to see a reduction in dose and their thyroid medication and supplementation, and we're seeing thyroid antibodies reduce just by initiating LDN. 

Linda Elsegood: That's amazing, isn't it? How that happens.

Dr Tarek: about, do you use more often in the ones that said it is helping, 

Linda Elsegood: but I mean, the people are using it for Hashimoto's, hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, Graves' disease, Sjogren's syndrome. I mean, they're all thyroid, aren't they? And there was a paper written on Sjogren's syndrome last week, which was interesting.

Yeah. So, yeah. And then you get people who think, how can LDN work for so many different conditions, but it's to do with the autoimmune component. We didn't realize 15 years ago how well LDN worked for pain. It doesn't have to be a condition that is all autoimmune, which causes the pain for the LDN to work. Yeah. And neuropathic pain, especially in diabetics, it works really well for phantom limb pain as well is, another quite new thing that I've learned about, but there is always something happening with LDN. I don't know whether it's common knowledge yet in California, but. pain specialists are using ultra-low-dose naltrexone alongside opioids and weaning patients off the opioids.

That's very exciting. We're actually going to be filming a documentary on LDN and pain because there are so many patients who are addicted to pain medications through no fault of their own. You know, they haven't been buying drugs on a street corner. These are prescription drugs, and it's still the same, isn't it? To try and get off those medications. You still go through the awful withdrawal symptoms, but by using ultra-low-dose naltrexone where you. I'm starting on a microdose and increase that slowly, decrease the opioid and the people that I've spoken to who it worked really well for. It's amazing. Totally amazing.

And quite quickly, because I thought you'd have to do it over a long period of time, but it doesn't seem to be as long as I would think. 

Dr Tarek: Yeah. And those ultra micro low doses, are generally very low. So it's really important for anybody who wants to try it. They really need to be careful and, and understand instead of the dosing we've been talking about thus far, which is 0.5, up to 4.5 milligrams, uh, with, with people who are on opioids, we currently, we want to go start at 0.001 milligrams, so a very ultra-low dose. And because we don't want to throw them into withdrawal and cause them more harm, we want to try to help them.

Linda Elsegood: Exactly. And it's something that you would never, ever try and do on your own. It has to be under medical supervision because you could become stuck.  Definitely. 

Dr Tarek: Yeah. 

Linda Elsegood:  What pain conditions have you your patients been using LDN for?

Dr Tarek:  I've seen it used for some fibromyalgia patients. And some neuropathic pain patients we've asked. We've also included it in our transdermal pain creams, so we are starting to add that into there and seen a lot of, a lot of great results with it. I wish we could use it with, uh—complex regional pain syndrome. The problem is those patients are generally all already on high doses of opioids, so we can't use it on them. But we have seen that it's really effective for those patients. But the patients that we have at our pharmacy, they're already on really high doses of opioids, so they just can't be on it. 

Linda Elsegood: Well, maybe they could try the ultra-low dose. 

Dr Tarek: Yeah, they could. You know, we were just starting to learn about it.

And that’s the exciting thing about LDN is we're constantly in a learning phase with this. And so we're learning more and more uses and more and more types of doses and, and, that's something that we, we want to try to communicate to those physicians that are treating those patients. And. hopefully, we can get an open ear that's open to learning more about it.

Linda Elsegood: Yes. I mean, Dr. Deepak Chopra wrote a paper long while ago now, probably 2015 on complex regional pain syndrome and LDN, not a very interesting paper, but there are more and more pain specialists looking into LDN for pain. And I have spoken to many patients who are not on just morphine or fentanyl patches, but a cocktail of medication and they say that their pain is still on a score of one to 10, 10 being worst, nine on a daily basis.

And it's awful to think that people have to suffer like that, isn't it? 

Dr Tarek: Yeah, I agree.  Yeah, I have a young lady who comes to our pharmacy regularly who has the condition and, when it's acting up, and she comes in, you can, she's just kind of , bent over and walking very slowly, and you can tell that her pain is definitely at a ten on a scale of one to 10 and even though she is currently on high doses of opioids, it's just no stopping it. The pain is at a ten and, and she can't seem to find any relief at that point. Very, very hard to see someone suffer like that.

Linda Elsegood: Unless you've witnessed it and experienced what pain can be like. You think that you know you've got a headache, you take two paracetamol, you feel okay, but there is pain out there that does seem untreatable, doesn't it? Yeah, I can remember. Yes. Dr Samyadev Datta, he's also a pain specialist, and he was telling me how he has a practice, but he also works in the hospital, and he will get a phone call in the middle of the night that there's a patient, you know, screaming out in pain, the pain levels that are a ten and he will go in, and he'll say, okay. This patient is on 14 painkillers on this cocktail. They’re on too many pain medications. It's not going to work. You've got to take them off this, this, this and this, and sorting it all out. But he's very for LDN and ultra-low-dose and there is so much more coming in this in the next year, I am sure because. The PCCA, talking about LDN, more other conferences or talking about LDN? We have an LDN conference not that far from you really, is it? California? Portland in Oregon. 

Dr Tarek: Yeah. Great.

Linda Elsegood: Hopefully, we will be able to get you there. Because meeting all these people and actually being able to put your questions to them. It's an amazing tool. Amazing tool. Well, if you would like to tell our listeners how they can contact you and what your website addresses, that would be good. 

Dr Tarek: Yes. So the name of my pharmacy is Carmel Valley Pharmacy. The website is CarmelValleyPharmacy.com. And the phone number is (858) 481-4990. And lastly, my email, and if you go to the website, you can find my email, but just to mention it, it is, CarmelValleyRX@yahoo.com and I can be reached at any of those ways and I would be happy to receive any more questions or orders for prescriptions or any needs that you have with compounding or regular prescriptions 

Linda Elsegood: Thank you.

Dr Tarek: It was my pleasure. Thank you for the invite.

Linda Elsegood: Carmel Valley Pharmacy is a family-owned independent pharmacy with a mission to provide the best pharmacy experience possible with exceptional customer service, access to knowledgeable pharmacists and cost-friendly prices. Cool. (858) 481-4990.  Call Carmell Valley pharmacy.com the friendly store for their state of the art compounding lab and waiting to help you.

Any questions or comments you may have. Please email me. Linda, contact@ldnresearchtrust.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.

Pharmacist Rosella Pirulli Menta, LDN Radio Show 19 June 2019 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.

Linda Elsegood: Today I'm joined by a pharmacist and naturopathic doctor, Rosella Pirulli, mentor. Thank you for joining us today. Rosella.

Rosella: Thank you for having me.

Linda Elsegood: Now you said that you got an extraordinary story to tell us:  Your journey. Would you like to explain that to us?

Rosella: Well, I went to St John's University in Queens, and that's where I got my degree in pharmacy and when I started working at a pharmacy in the Bronx of New York I wasn't very happy with just filling prescriptions and checking them and I felt that was not for me. I felt that, if I was going to have a profession and be successful, I wanted to show my children a different way to have a great life and also to be a part of a profession that helps people feeling amazingly well.

So that was my goal and so I only worked in that type of scenery for a few years and then I decided to look into other avenues. I went into homoeopathy where I did get a certificate in homoeopathy and I also looked into supplemental products because I really enjoy the supplements and teaching people how to take the correct supplements, especially if they are on certain medications that require supplements because of the problems that supplements can cause as a side effect. And the first thing I did learn was when patients were taking stands that they need to coQ10 we had a lot of patients that would complain of muscle weakness, fatigue and so I said: " You know what? I need to help patients with  drug issues and side effects." And that was the first step. And then patients would come into the store and I had a lot of patients that would complain about half flashes. And so I said, let me look into that avenue. And so, I started to dwell on how I could start a career in compounding and in that store I really couldn't do it as well but I did get my training to PTCA, and they are an FDA approved facility where I got most of my training from compounding and also in the avenue of bioidentical hormones. And then from there Rye Beach pharmacy took me on because they had a full compounding lab at the time and so they asked me if we did the store for a few years afterwards to be more in compliant, because we're now accredited by the board of PCAB and we also 700 compliance, soon to be 800 compliant by the end of the year.

But in the interim, I had to move to Florida where I worked part-time for Rye Beach pharmacy, and then I worked for a pharmacy in Florida so I had my license there as well. And I was commuting back and forth. I would come here and market to doctors because when I did graduate, I received my bachelor's in pharmacy, but I also, not knowingly, I minored in marketing, so I was I guess then I knew I was going to market, which is great because I enjoy networking.

That's like the passion for me to get doctors together, doctors and pharmacies together. It's my passion to help people get to know each other and there's always room for other avenues. So that's my enjoyment. And right now, I do have my own office where I see patients, I do phone consults as well and I also review blood work with patients. I'm really close to many of the doctors. So that's where I learned more about LDN because I went to PTCA conference and learned about LDN and how important it was for patients in different disease states.

Linda Elsegood: So, you are a supermom. You have five children.

Wow. How does it fit in with a career?

Rosella: Well, it's amazing because my kids understand that we're a team. That's it. We're a team. We work together and we all love each other so much. So my kids are so amazing with each other. They all help each other out.

So the oldest is 22. That's my daughter. My son's 20. My other daughter's 18. And I have a 15-year-old and ten years old. So we are constantly figuring things out and make it work and I think that makes them stronger and closer to the family 

Linda Elsegood: Wow, wonderful! And when did you first really get involved with LDN?

Was it at that PCCA meeting? Had you heard about LDN before then?

Rosella: I heard about it before then because we had a specific doctor that was a Lyme specialist that was working with LDN. So I asked her why was she prescribing LDN and she said it was because she had a lot of patients that were immunocompromised and fatigued, and the LDN is really helpful because it increases immune response. So I said:" That's really interesting. I'd like to learn more about it." So I did some research on it, I spoke with other doctors that were writing for it, why they were writing for it and I had one particular patient that had Crohn's disease. I asked him if he would want to try it and he's been on it ever since. So this is, at least six years that he's been on LDN. He's doing really well and will not stop it. That's for sure. I also took an autoimmune class on LDN. Not only is it great for pain. I actually had another patient that came to see me. She had a severe car accident. She had a lot of neurological issues going on and was on many other pain medications. So I helped wean her off of those pain medications and put her on LDN. Her starting dose was at 1.5 mg. We went up to 4.5 mg and then I said to her: "Let's try 5 milligrams and see if that works for you." That's when she started getting a side effect. She felt very strange. She said in mind a little weird. We went back down to 4.5 mg and she's been on 4.5 mg since about two years now. She's very happy with it. Every once in a while she has to take a Lyrica or something else.

It depends on the stressful situation in our lives, but, I mean, she's off most of her other pain meds because LDN is really working well for her.

Then I have a few other patients that I'm looking into the fertility aspect of it because I do work with a lot of fertility doctors and a lot of them don't know about LDN.

So I did more research on it to see how effective it would be. So right now I'm working with an endocrinologist who's going to start his patients on LDN and see how they do. A lot of people are fascinated by it and they want to try it. They want to help patients this way and I'm happy about that too.

Linda Elsegood: Well, there was a paper released last week by Dr Scott Zashin. He's a rheumatologist in Texas for Sjogren's Syndrome. That was quite good. The more papers and research that people do, it's going to make prescribers more confident in prescribing LDN.

Rosella: I forgot to mention I do have an ALS patient that is using it. This is amazing because he wasn't able to move his fingers and he wasn't speaking. Now it took a little bit of time. He can move his fingers, he can speak a little bit. At one point he didn't have the LDN. His doctor didn't authorize it because I think he was away and he wasn't speaking. So his sister said they need it because this was the only thing that they noticed that he needed. So I called the doctor, and I said:" Just put like PRN refills because this man is doing well with it.

Linda Elsegood: Interesting. So what I was going to say was, how long has the pharmacy been compounding LDN?

Rosella: Let's see. They've been in business for over 50 years and compounding around maybe 15 years.

Linda Elsegood: And what forms do you compound LDN in?

Rosella: Capsules right now for the most part and some creams. I haven't done any sublingual yet, but I think it's worth a try for some patients.

Linda Elsegood: Sublingual is quite a useful tool when people have gut issues that obviously absorb differently and bypasses the stomach so that is hell in some patients, but maybe all your patients can tolerate the capsules quite well. What filler do you use?

Rosella: We use acidophilus. Most patients don't have any issues with that.

Linda Elsegood: Yes. Do you know roughly what patient population you normally treat or is it all autoimmune condition patients?

Rosella: It is hard to say because I'm not in the lab that much. There are a few days that I do work in the lab when they need me but basically working in my own office and I work with a lot of bioidentical patients. So my thought is to really work with thyroid issues and help patients with Hashimoto's.

From what I've read and what I've seen with other patients, LDN really helps to decrease the antibodies in Hashimoto's patients. So that'll also help them with their thyroid. That's going to be my push as well as other autoimmune diseases. And I was looking into other inflammatory diseases like endometriosis, PCOS because I feel that LDN may have a good positive result with those patients as well.

Linda Elsegood: It certainly does. I can speak from experience myself, and with endometriosis worked amazingly.

Rosella: Good to hear. Very good to hear.

Linda Elsegood: I would also like to mention when you treat thyroid patients with LDN, you have to be very careful of the levels of the dose if they're taking thyroid medication because normally they have to start reducing the dose as you increase the LDN.

That is something to look out for. This is why we always say to people who have thyroid conditions to keep in constant contact with the prescriber because you can hit some problems if you are taking too much of your thyroid medication.

Rosella: I agree with you on that. I do work with a lot of patients and I have one endocrinologist that we monitor thyroid and we compound different strengths of thyroid T3,  T4 depending on their blood levels. So we do look at that TSH really carefully and free T3. We also look at FT4, but mainly I look at the TSH and FT3. That to me is very important. I could see a difference in patients if their level changes just a bit. They can start having hair loss or weight gain and fatigue.

That's why  I do tell my patients it's so important that we monitor them, get blood levels done every few weeks to see where they are.

Linda Elsegood: The internet is an amazing tool. It helps people do their own research, but the warning is you can't take notice as gospel truth from just a person on the internet who's not a doctor, not a prescriber, but who is giving advice.

We always say the proper advice is to speak to a pharmacist or a prescriber. You people have had years of training and experience where it's all well and good listening to other people, but when you are talking about your health, you should be talking to a medical professional.

Rosella: Correct. I agree with you on that.

Linda Elsegood: Yes. I mean, it's quite scary. We had an email from a lady who had been given some kind of advice from a friend of a friend of a doctor and their advice was totally wrong. And also you should not buy LDN off the internet. It's illegal. Naltrexone is a prescription-only drug, and therefore you need a prescription to make sure all the safety standards are met.

You said that you were PCAB accredited. So just to explain to people what you have to go through to prove that your pharmacy and your compounding is spot on with the regulations.

Rosella: The regulations are intense and immense. It took us, at least about two years and we're still perfecting it to pass all of the inspection qualifications because if we're ever audited, yes.  PCAB is a credentialing organization. It takes some time for us to make sure we follow every different legality as to having our compounding lab as perfect as possible. Every aspect of it is really important. We have SLPs, and we have meetings every week to make sure that we're following our SLPs. Keeping every temperature in the lab correct, the airflow. We have to make sure that they're wearing their masks, their hats,  jackets and gloves and everything has to be precise and follow to the T. If we ever get inspected, they could definitely find us for anything that they feel that is necessary. We're trying our best to make sure we keep up with it. It's very intense. It really is. That's why we always offer our doctors to come to visit the lab or patients. We have them look through the window because they can't come into the lab and see how we are following protocol per se.

Linda Elsegood: And what are your thoughts on people purchasing LDN off the internet?

Rosella: I just found out that they're selling a prescription item on the internet, and I'm appalled. I don't know how they're doing it. I feel the same way as you. Being that we're a credential lab and we work really hard to keep up with all the laws and the regulations, I don't know where this lab is. It's making the LDN. I have no idea. I would not recommend it at all.

Linda Elsegood: Exactly. The MHRA, which is the medicines regulatory body here in the UK quoted something like 85% of drugs that are shipped into the UK without a prescription is counterfeit. Mostly they're just fillers, they are harmless but some of them are actually lethal.

They're very dangerous. Don't play Russian roulette with your life. Get LDN from a reputable compounding pharmacy.

Rosella: I agree with you. We require to keep it as clean, pure and stable and it's really important to deal with the pharmacy credentials because you never know what you're getting out there. We work hard and we respect it.

Linda Elsegood: And not only that. You have your LDN tested so you have to prove in a 4.5 capsule that there is 4.5 of Naltrexone.

Rosella: Yes, we do.

Linda Elsegood: So if there were no checks, it could be 1 mg, 6 mg, or it could just all be fillers.

Rosella: Exactly. You're right. We do send it out for testing. We send out batches every day of different types of compounds, and then we get our results back within the right range, and we're happy we dispense it. So it's important that we do that.

It can cost up to $200 or more depending on what you're testing.

Linda Elsegood: So pain. Are you using any ultra-low-dose naltrexone yet? It's quite relatively new still. I don't know if that's something that your doctors yet know about.

Rosella: No, I don't think so.

I really haven't heard of that either. So how low is the dose then because I'd like to speak to my doctors about that.

Linda Elsegood: Well it's micro-dosing. It's probably 0.01  kind of thing. But it's really interesting. People who are on high doses of pain medication and have been for years, it's awful how it's not just America, it's all around the world how people are becoming addicted to these pain medications. I know that the whole idea is to try and get patients off the pain medications, but the withdrawals can be quite horrendous. So by using this ultra-low-dose naltrexone in micro-dosing, you can use that alongside with opioids.

They don't have to be off the opioids, but such a small dose makes the opioids far more effective. So it makes them work better, and therefore the patient is able to reduce the amount that they're taking. If you look at it as a sliding scale, you slowly increase the ultra-low dose, and we're still talking microdosing here, and then they can gradually reduce their opioids until they're on the LDN.

Most pain specialists say that they can get their patients off the opioids completely.  Some say that they just take it when they need to. They're not taking it constantly. So I think that is something that's really interesting and something new to many people but how wonderful to get these people off pain medications.  I've spoken to many people who've been on Morphine, Fentanyl, patches, and cocktails of medication and they say that they're still in pain. It doesn't work. So if we can get LDN out there and use to help these people to come off all these pain medications.

how wonderful is that? Tell us what do high doses of painkillers long term do to the body?

Rosella: They can cause a whole host of things, bone loss, blood pressure issues. It depends. I'm looking at patients that not only the opioids but if they take a NSAID what it could cause in the long run. I just believe that most of these medications,  some patients become suicidal too. Depression is another problem, weight gain. So many different things that opioids cause.  I think that if we can help patients come off of them and give them more supplementation and also LDN in a combination that'd be great.

Even Curcumin, Boswellia. There are so many amazing products out there that patients don't know about. They're just scared to come off of their opioids because of the dependency.

Linda Elsegood: Definitely. So how do patients get hold of you for a consultation?

Rosella: On the website. There is the introduction of what I do. I have a video there as well and there's also an evaluation form they can download. So on the website, there is an appointment maker there called shore, so they can make an appointment with me and it makes it really convenient for them.

Most doctors that know what I do, tell the patients to call me or go on the website or email. I have my business cards and I have that for them and that's how they get in touch with me. They used to call here. I have an assistant, her name is Tiffany, and she helps me with setting up appointments, and she's also a technician that helps to fill our scripts.

So that works out really help me.

Linda Elsegood: And do you have a waiting list, or can you see patients quite quickly?

Rosella: It depends on the month because I do marketing two days a week. So that's why it's really convenient for them to make their own schedule. It could range from a week waiting, maybe two weeks at most, then I try to fit them in. So for instance, if they can't see me within the special time frame that I have, which is usually between like eight in the morning and six,  I see them on the weekends if I can. I'll set up that schedule for patients. So I try to make it convenient, try to fit people in as quickly as possible.

Linda Elsegood: And where are you situated?

Rosella: Where am I situated? I'm in the Rye, New York. In Westchester County.

Linda Elsegood: Is it wheelchair friendly for patients too?

Rosella: Well, it is. We are a hybrid store, so downstairs is mainly where we have the retail establishment.

We have home health care and our vitamin line where we have a pharmacist that's full time working in that area. We also have the upstairs where my lab is, and where also is my office and other offices as well. If a patient needs to see me and can't walk up the stairs, there is another office downstairs that I could see them in. That works out for those patients.

Linda Elsegood: Wonderful! And could you just tell us your website?

Rosella: It's www.ryerx.com.

Linda Elsegood: Wonderful. Wow. We need to end of the show.

Rosella: Oh, great. I just wanted to clear something up. I'm not a physician. I'm a naturopath, so I cannot prescribe. I just wanted to clarify that if you don't mind.

Linda Elsegood: No, that's absolutely fine.

 Just explain what a naturopath does.

Rosella: Well, I took some courses in it, and I basically learned more about supplementation. It's a little bit different. I wanted to become a naturopathic physician, but I didn't have the time. I was basically between the kids and working full time.

I didn't go into that avenue. But it's been mainly as like learning about supplementation, helping patients with that as well as a little bit of nutrition. So I would like to go into clinical nutrition as well, but we'll see if I can cross that path when I get a chance to, once all the kids are in college, I guess, I don't know.

I'll figure it out.

Linda Elsegood: Do you test for supplementation to find out what people are low in?

Rosella: We do some blood work for sure. New York is really tough when it comes to other types of testing, so we can only do blood tests and that's how we test and we just saliva testing for the hormones. We are limited to a lot of different types of testing unless a patient lives in Connecticut or New Jersey, then we can test them with the different kits that we have.

Linda Elsegood: What about vitamins? Can you test for vitamin levels or not in New York?

Rosella: It could be tested for sure because we work with a lot of doctors that do a lot of IV therapy and they test all sorts of vitamins.

It depends on the lab that does it. But here are many labs that do testing for vitamins.

Linda Elsegood: Do you find that people in New York are deficient in vitamin D? Do you get enough sunshine there?

Rosella: I would say that everyone is deficient in vitamin D, everyone in America must be, but definitely in New York.

And then, once we rectify that, they feel better. We get them to a certain level, and they could stay on the supplementation for a good long time. Usually, I don't recommend that they come off of it, but if they have levels to go higher than  50, with the doctors ok, we'll bring down the dose a little bit.

Linda Elsegood: How would a patient feel if the vitamin D levels were low?

Rosella: Some patients tell me that they feel achy, others tell me they feel tired or depressed.

Some patients don't have any symptoms at all, so it just depends on the person. I know when I had my levels low, I would feel a little down and when it was a rainy day, I wouldn't feel myself. But now that my levels are normal it doesn't bother me.

So it's really strange how I used to feel.

Linda Elsegood: That's really interesting, isn't it? So anybody out there who would like to come and see you go online, they can find out more about you, play the video and make an appointment, come and see you and the bonuses is they can actually have a look at your compounding lab looking through the window, of course.

But that's also interesting to some people. I'm sure.

Rosella: Yes, absolutely. They love it, especially because we have a clean room as well, and it's separate from the rest of the lab, and that's where we make all the injections of HTG and b12 and they find that very interesting.

Linda Elsegood: Well, thank you very for being our guest today. We learned a lot from you.

Rosella: Thank you very much for having me and have a great day.

Linda Elsegood: Thank you.

Rosella: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Linda Elsegood: Each pharmacy has been family owned since 1946 they are a PCAB accredited compounding pharmacy growing from a corner drugstore to a wellness centre that helps patients to achieve their optimal health covering Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts. New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island.

Visit www.ryerx.com, and I hope for the opportunity to earn trust.

Any questions or comments you may have, please Contact Us.  I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.