Paul Battle PA-C, LDN Radio Show 22 Feb 2017 (LDN, low dose naltrexone) from LDN Research Trust on Vimeo.
Linda Elsegood: today. Our guest is physician assistant Paul Battle from Colorado. Paul is an experienced LDN prescriber and also has personal experience of LDN.
Paul Battle PA-C: Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Linda Elsegood: Well, I know you've been prescribing LDN for many years. How long has it been now?
Paul Battle PA-C: Since 2008 I believe.
Linda Elsegood: Okay. I thought it was longer than that. At that time, how many different conditions do you think you've prescribed LDN for?
Paul Battle PA-C: Approximately 20 or so. Ones that I can recall right now, all varying different conditions, an autoimmune disease. It does help with cancers that have had treatment already. I can't say it's a cure for cancer, but it's a, like a supplemental treatment, especially for people who've already had cancer therapy, stage four cancers.
And then certainly the autoimmune diseases, which can include Lupus, Crohn's disease, all sort of Colitis, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome. What I generally do is look at the disease mechanism, what the aetiology of it. If it has some antibody-associated mechanism, autoimmune disease, then I consider LDN and the treatment.
Many of these people really don't have any other option. They tried multiple drugs. A lot of the drugs will have side effects and they just are looking for another answer. LDN can help with a lot of people that don't have any other options.
Linda Elsegood: And from the patients that you've prescribed LDN for, what has been their success rate?
Paul Battle PA-C: I would say the majority of the patients get some positive response. I would say probably close to 85% of people will get some positive response. Some are very dramatic responses. For example, I had a 13-year-old girl with Crohn's disease who after just 3 months, she had already been on the biologics and was losing weight and having difficulty she had no more symptoms. All her inflammatory markers were completely normal and she's still doing well. That was probably about a year and a half ago, just a couple months ago and she's just doing remarkably well. Same with some of the complex regional pain syndrome. This is a terrible disease that plagues people, that causes severe pain due to some dysfunction or dysregulation of the immune system related to the nervous system. It's called the neural glial cells. And some people, I've had 80% relief from complex regional pain syndrome. I first started that in 2010 when this young woman who was attending college couldn't finish college. We had put a spinal cord stimulator in her neck to try and control the pain, but she still wasn't doing well.
That was my first proposal ever for CRPS and Dr Chopra wrote an article, then published an article a couple of years later after I started this young lady on it, and it worked for her. She finished college, got a career, and after a year and a half, she went off LDN without a problem and since then, I've been treating multiple people with that disease with varying success. So it really varies though, like I never can guarantee to somebody that I'm going to cure them or they're going to get 90% relief. We're just trying to improve the quality of their life.
Linda Elsegood: And how long would you say it takes on average for somebody to notice that LDN is doing something for them?
Paul Battle PA-C: Well, I've seen people respond in some positive fashion within 2 to 3 weeks. For example, my son, (that's how I got interested in all this) within 2 weeks with his Crohn's disease started having a positive response, getting a better colour, less pain, fewer symptoms. But I've also had people where it's taken six months.
I had a woman who was a university professor with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome who just persisted. I said," just keep on, keep on. " And she was in a wheelchair. Her symptoms were so bad. She was disabled in a wheelchair. Then six months later, I got all these Facebook invitations to look at this video, and here she was returning to work, which was a glorious thing.
And now she just texted me last week saying she did a five kms. That's going from a person in a wheelchair totally disabled to now running five kms. That's been about a year and a half now, but she stuck it out. And I asked people to be patient. Sometimes they do not think it's doing anything. For example, in her case, she said: " I don't know if this is working.
I'm just gonna see how it goes without it." So one Friday night, she ran out of it, and that was the last time she ever skipped a dose that she said it was the worst, she described her spinal cord on fire. And I've had a number of other people saying, "well, I'm not sure if it's working."
They stop it, and then they discover it was really a mistake to stop it. So I tell people in where from a couple, three weeks to six months.
Linda Elsegood: And from all the patients that you have prescribed LDN for, have any had negative side effects?
Paul Battle PA-C: I think some people describe a kind of tiredness or a little fatigue they may have and sometimes it depends on when they take it. For example, most people take it at night, but I have a lot of patients with these syndromes that really creates sleep deprivation anyway. I don't want to have them risk their restorative sleep. So I have them take it in the daytime and I think those people probably have a little bit more fatigued and tiredness than the people take it at night.
I met some people that just like any other medications have a little stomach distress from it, but that's pretty unusual. And you know, I'm not even sure if it's the LDN, but, the sleep deprivation, I really haven't had troubles with that too much, because I titrate them up, fairly solidly over three weeks, sometimes four week time period.
Linda Elsegood: And would you say there's any condition better than any other that you found LDN works best for?
Paul Battle PA-C: I would say the inflammatory conditions of the joints work really well. Dr Berkson, done great the presentations on Rheumatoid Arthritis, iPad, people who were on the biologics, that is, the biologic agents that are what's called tissue necrosis factor inhibitors, who were doing okay on those and, they couldn't afford anymore so they want an LDN and they actually got better results. One patient of mine now was mountain climbing. He wasn't able to move his shoulders for 3 years, went on LDN, and now he's welling up that he's climbing with his kids. So I think that the joint arthritis issues, the inflammatory bowel disease, especially Crohn's. I don't find all sort of colitis as responsive as the Crohn's patients. So I'm careful to say how successful it is with Ulcerative Colitis patients, but it's certainly always a good idea to try it. The gastroenterologists recognize the Ulcerative Colitis and Crohn's that may have some different mechanisms of action.
The cancer patients, I've had several stages for cancer patients. They're living any of them with the same diagnosis. That's been good. And how much of that is the LDN? How much is it good health and a good attitude? I don't know, but I just know the other people that were treated without LDN in their particular type of cancers are no longer with us.
So I think it is a help because of the two mechanisms that LDN works. It inhibits cancer cell reproduction, and it also, according to the new research done last year by Angus, Down in Great Britain where it actually helps change the gene action with apoptosis of the cancer cells. So I think it has a dual benefit therewith, with cancer.
Linda Elsegood: We have a few questions here and we will start with the question from Randy who has Graves' and Hashimoto's. And the question is," I've heard that LDN can lower thyroid hormone and sent a person hyperthyroid, but in the information, it says it can quickly make a person hyperthyroid.
Can it really have such opposite effect."
Paul Battle PA-C: Usually it's hyper because what happens is the Hashimoto's usually has a tendency, depending on what phase of the disease you're in. Graves', usually you're hyper and that could possibly cause the problem but what it is is the Naltrexone interacts with the antibodies so if a person is Hypothyroid from Hashimoto's thyroiditis, I always tell them to reduce their thyroid supplements by half or 25% because there's been a number of people who are hyperthyroid, they're on their thyroid medication, they take the LDN and the next day they're agitated, they are like high, they're hyperthyroid because what happens is it has a tendency to neutralize the antibody action, whether it actually reduces the antibodies or how the antibodies respond to the cellular receptors with antibodies to thyroid.
We don't know, but I always warn people to cut their dose down before they take their Naltrexone. In the case of Graves' disease, I haven't heard of it causing I hypothyroidism. I guess that would be possible if it's, a lot of the inflammation is causing a hyperthyroid state, which you can't get in Grave's disease and you reduce that inflammation, you could possibly reduce the thyroid activity there.
But I haven't had that personal experience with Graves' disease. Mostly I treat the Hashimoto's thyroiditis, and that's the most common cause of hypothyroidism.
Linda Elsegood: Thank you for answering that question for Randy. We have a quite long question here, so bear with me. It's from Shantelle.
She says, "So thank you for being on the show and greetings." And she's a 54-year-old woman diagnosed with disposed systemic CIRCLE DOMA 15 years ago. The only medication she's presently taking is IVIG and Plaquenil a 0.25. She lives in the UK and is currently in the process of finding an LDN doctor.
She says she's noticed that you have experience in bioidentical hormones, and she would be very interested in your views on estrogen and testosterone. Four months ago, she changed from oral HRT to testosterone gel to having biodentical pellet implants of estrogen 50 mgs and testosterone at 100 mg.
And since she's had the pellets, she's never felt so awful in her life in terms of depression, mood and run down. And she seems to catch every bug going around compared with the four months that she was on oral.
Paul Battle PA-C: I didn't quite catch the initial diagnosis but if she's being treated with IVIG that puts it in the same class of diseases that can be treated with LDN because it's going after the same problem. That is an autoimmune disease immune dysregulation. I have a young girl who was also going to be treated with IIVIG for an antibody associated Peripheral Neuropathy.
She had problems with antibodies to her nerve receptors so she basically did not have a lot of function in her muscles, her GI tract and they were going to give her IVIG, but it wasn't insurance approved here in the United States, at least with their insurance so I offered a LDN, and that has proven to be very good for her.
She's back in school, halftime. She was in bed or missed all of last year. So the answer to her question is: I think LDN would be a very reasonable possibility for her to approach her other disease. Do you want me to answer the question about the hormone?
Linda Elsegood: Hang on. The main question when you get to the bottom there, because the testosterone and the estrogen implant is making her feel very depressed, very down, very moody.
She feels awful. She felt quite good on the oral HRT. So she's saying to you, she wants to go on the LDN, which should she take? Should she stick with the oral or the pellets?
Paul Battle PA-C: Well, I usually use the oral just because it's easier to titrate the dose. Once she got inserted pellets with estrogen, it might've been too high of a dose, and once you put the pallet in the subcutaneous tissue, it's very difficult to adjust the dose.
So she may be running very high. I usually like to estrogen to run around 60 to 100. That's what the literature shows to be protective against osteoporosis and coronary artery disease. But if you have too much, you can certainly have psychiatric side effects just like women get what they are on the birth control pill, they can have depression.
And as far as the testosterone pellets, the same thing, once you insert those, you're kind of stuck with those for 3 or 4 months. So some people love pellets because they don't have to deal with the daily pill and adjusting things but in my experience, it's just easier to adjust. If she has trouble with estrogen, you can just reduce the pill dosage.
I work with compounding pharmacy so I can make it whatever dose I want.1 milligram, 2 milligrams. The oral therapy for estrogen has been shown to be more cardioprotective than for example, a pellet form or a cream form. So for that reason, the dosing can be easier adjusted when it's in a pill or a cream form.
Linda Elsegood: Well, that's good. I think that was the route she was hoping to go down because she felt so ill and so down. So I think you've just confirmed it for her, so thank you for that. Here's a good one. Have you prescribed LDN for migraine headaches?
Paul Battle PA-C: I have. I have several patients with migraines that I prescribed LDN mostly because the current theory on migraine headaches is not our old theory of spasm of the arteries because they've done arteriograms and found that the artery diameter doesn't really change a lot when people have migraines.
So it's really more thought to be an inflammatory process of the nerves and therefore the LDN would be appropriate to try and adjust to an inflammatory condition like that. So I do have several patients with migraines on LDN. I do other things too but it seems like that's helped them.
They were treated in traditional medications for years, probably 5 or 10 years and I seem to be getting better results with the LDN. They stay with me, so obviously I'm doing something right for them.
Linda Elsegood: And I'm talking about headaches and migraines. Have you ever known LDN to cause a migraine headache?
Paul Battle PA-C: I haven't noticed it cause a migraine, but I have had several patients say it does cause a headache more of the dull headache, not so much the pounding vascular headache type of symptoms.
Linda Elsegood: And we have another question. It says," Have you seen LDN improve acne breakouts?
Paul Battle PA-C: I have not seen that. I just haven't noticed that. I use other things for acne so I haven't observed that.
Linda Elsegood: Okay. Thank you. And what it's your opinion of using Ketamine infusions in conjunction with LDN?
Paul Battle PA-C: I think they can be done. I have patients, I just had one last week. The ketamine works in a different way. it's a dissociative anaesthetic and it works by blocking the NMDA (N-methyl-d-aspartate) receptors. That's the receptor that transmits the pain to the brain and so what it does is it blocks that and so that really doesn't have any interaction with the LDN because the LDN works on opioid receptors, endorphin receptors. I think they can be used synergistically.
Linda Elsegood: And what conditions would you use the combination to for?
Paul Battle PA-C: That would be Complex Regional Pain Syndrome. When I used to operate on people putting in spinal cord stimulators, I would put it routinely. First I would give IV magnesium prior to surgery and that has been shown in several studies that it can reduce pain 50%. That magnesium also naturally blocks the NMDA receptor, which the ketamine does so that works with ketamine. And then I would give an infusion during surgery and then after I would give an infusion for overnight to blocked the NMDA receptors so that the surgery would not precipitate an exacerbation of the Complex Regional Pain Syndrome or what's known as RSD, or Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy.
That's only a diagnosis that I've ever used it for and I don't know of any other diagnosis that you would use Ketamine for. Ketamine is a tricky drug. Adults can have a miserable experience whether they can have nightmares and side effects from them can be hypertension, tachycardia, hallucinations, things like that.
So with adults, you do have to be careful with it. There are low dose ketamine infusions, and there are high dose ketamine infusions. Dr Kirkpatrick at the RSD Research Centre in Tampa, Florida, does a high dose. I've been there, and I watched him do his technique there. So that's the only diagnosed I can think of.
Linda Elsegood: Well, thank you very much. We'll just go to a quick break, and we'll be back in just a moment.
To listen to individual radio shows and interviews go to www.mixcloud.com/lldnrt.
This show is sponsored by Paul Battle PA-C. He is a well-respected physician's assistant. He takes a physiological approach for your optimal health using traditional and nontraditional treatments for autoimmune diseases and bone health, using hormone replacement therapy and low dose naltrexone. He has patients throughout Colorado and other states.
Visit www.pabattle.com or call 720 773 9041.
We have a question here, Paul, which you can sympathize with. Amy has a 17 year old daughter got Crohn's disease diagnosed four months ago. She says," Are the children taking LDN with success? What can I expect to see as an improvement besides better sleep, which assist with pain and improve quality of life?
And by that, she means more energy and able to go through a normal school day. Will LDN take her pain away?
Paul Battle PA-C: You're right. That is dear to my heart because that's how I got started with my son. And for her to know, my son was diagnosed with severe Crohn's as he hits at age 10. I think it started at age 9.
He had to have a good part of his small bowel resected that time, 3 years later, he had another severe exacerbation going into hypovolemic shock and so that is a time where I started researching by myself. And that's when I read Jill Smith's article in 2007 about LDN and Crohn's and she's an excellent and respect gastroenterologist who did excellent studies on LDN and Crohn's showing a remission. So if she wants to know if it works within 8 weeks, 69% of the people in her first study, showed that they went into remission, 89% of them showed that they had a significant reduction in the Crohn's index scores.
And what are those? The index scores are more symptomatic scores on a number of stools per day. Cramping, bloody diarrhoea, fevers things like that. Those, that 89% of them had significant reduction scores, so she can't expect a very good possibility that she would have less pain because the inflammation is causing the spasm, which is causing the pain.
So reduces the inflammation. Those symptoms will improve. They also will reduce the diarrhoea if she is having diarrhoea. You can get Crohn's in any section of your GI tract from the oesophagus to the anus. My son now, he's been on LDN for 8 years. He is a weight lifter, a bodybuilder.
He's doing really well. He has a strict diet so the one thing I would tell people that you don't depend on LDN alone. It's multi-system, multiple approaches to solving the Crohn's problem and if you do these other techniques such as dietary control and supplements, probiotics, things like that, you can expect to get good control of it.
As I said, I had a 14-year old that really pretty much doesn't have symptoms anymore. Inflammatory markers are gone, so you can expect chemical markers for inflammation to be reduced when she's on the LDN and yes, they had children on certainly had my own son on it. Dr McCandless treated many thousands of people with autism with LDN, and so it's proven to be very safe with children.
Linda Elsegood: Thank you. That was an ideal question for you, wasn't it? Robin has asked the question. She's got Multiple Sclerosis. She's had been taking LDN since 2005 and in that time, she's had no new lesions and no active ones. She's had MRIs. She says that she's no better, but she's no worse.
MS has been stable in all that time. She uses a cane away for balance away from home and uses a scooter in large stores. Now what she would like to know is, does she need to continue taking LDN for the rest of her life, or is there a period of where she can stop?
Paul Battle PA-C: That's a good question. I wouldn't because she's been stable now for almost 12 years, I would be very hesitant to stop it. There are not many people with MS that are stable for 12 years. He could have 5 or 6 years where you have this up and down cycle but that's a long time to be stable.
She has no new lesions and the cost and the risk of LDN is so low. I don't know why she would want to consider stopping it. The other thing is the benefits of LDN with your immune system in general. It upregulates many of the things that help protect you from infections. It upregulates the natural killer cells and with the new research and cancer and the old research in cancer with doctors Aegon? it may help. I can't say for sure, but there are no studies on preventing it cancer. But certainly, we've seen the action clinically and how it benefits people with cancers. I would really recommend that she stay on it for the rest of her life.
Like I said before, there are people thought: " There's no benefit here. I stop it." And they paid the price. And MS is not something you want to have an exacerbation, it can be quite devastating for some people.
Linda Elsegood: Exactly. Yes. I certainly wouldn't want to come off the LDN.
We have an interesting question from Kat and, she says that she takes baking soda in water for reflux before she goes to bed, but she also takes her LDN before bed. And will the baking soda stop the LDN from being absorbed?
Paul Battle PA-C: It might. I wouldn't really recommend that because of the baking soda itself, could inhibit the absorption of LDN.
It'd be best if you could take the LDN maybe an hour after that. By then, the baking soda should be out of her stomach and into her small intestine. So that's why we don't recommend compounding pharmacies to put calcium and other minerals in with the pills because it can disturb the absorption.
If she really needs the baking soda then she might consider doing LDN in a topical form with the oil or cream or something like that. If she has that much trouble with reflux she might have eosinophilic esophagitis, which LDN can be helpful for, since it's also an immune-based problem and that seems to be a more common diagnosis. So in the end, I wouldn't recommend her to take it at the same time.
Linda Elsegood: Just on a personal note, I used to have to take an anti-acid every night for acid reflux, which was really bad. It used to burn the back of my throat and absolutely awful. But have changed my diet and not eating gluten or dairy, the acid reflux has gone on.
I no longer have to take that medication, so I'm quite pleased.
Paul Battle PA-C: Excellent. That's the way to do it. Glutamine also was another nice thing to do. It's just an amino acid and that helps with reflux also. That's what most of the intestinal cells are dependent on for energy and also helps with restoring the intestinal cells so that's another thing she could try, but you're right, Linda, that's the best thing to do is just get away from those triggers. Gluten and dairy are the two most common triggers for many of the diseases we're talking about. We are not used to those kinds of proteins.
Linda Elsegood: And we have a question here from Heidi and she says she's got resistant depression. "I've been on every type of antidepressant and been in counselling on and off for years, and nothing works. I currently attend CBT I am suffering from crippling anxiety, depression, and insomnia. I've read that LDN can help.
I'm very desperate for help. I wish to try what would work"
Paul Battle PA-C: That's a good question. Some of the psychiatrists on our meetings are saying it can help. I mean, it certainly, increases the endorphins or at least the endorphin function. So that in itself can help depression. I don't know if it'll help the anxiety. The cognitive behaviour therapies he's doing is helpful but newer research is showing that many people have depression. It is an inflammatory condition. For example, people who have had a heart attack, the highest risk for reinforce, and that is, another heart attack occurring is depression and it's not an accident because of inflammation from depression. Inflammation in the presence of coronary artery disease can cause the plaque to be released from the wall of the artery causing a coronary thrombosis. So I think it would be worthwhile. There are studies, and I think Sweden and Japan, are showing that people who didn't do well on the medications, did well responding with high doses of fish oil. It is also an anti-inflammatory, and I'm talking large dosages.
For example, 5 to 10 grams per day of fish oil. Because DHA, which is in the official, makes a good part of the brain weight, about 20% of the brain weight so in the studies that Purdue University with children on anyway, so that most of the kids with this kind of psychiatric diseases, 85% had low DHA.
So fish oil is another anti-inflammatory, another option for people with depression. And the other thing that's important, since I do a lot of hormone work is to make sure that the thyroid is optimized. I don't mean in the range or normal. I mean optimized at a good level, healthy level, not just in the range, like 95% of the population and that has been shown in psychiatric journals to be just as good as antidepressants for depression therapy.
Linda Elsegood: I know many people who are using LDN for depression and anxiety, and I found that it really does help. Certainly got nothing to lose by trying it.
Paul Battle PA-C: Right. It's a great economic thing with really minimal if any side effects.
Linda Elsegood: Exactly. We have a question here from Robert who's got CFS/ME, and he said, "I was originally taking LDN at 4.5 mgs daily.
Now I'm taking it every other day based on an article which I have read recently, which is recommended, taking it every day or every other day.
Paul Battle PA-C: We have all, traditionally been prescribing it every day because the blockade is four hours and the immunological benefits that had been described byDr Dagan and Dr Bihari himself show that the immunological benefits last for about 20 hours. For that reason, I usually do a daily dose. Now for this person, if it's benefiting him every other day, his receptors may be more sensitive, and he does not need the 4.5 mg. What he might try is take half of the tablet and take two 2.25 milligrams a day versus every other day. But then, the pharmacokinetics, that is how the drug works and how long it lasts, it would be generally recommended to be on a daily basis. Now, you got to understand how LDN works. It is an opiate receptor blocker, and if somebody has more sensitive receptors, they may need a lower dose or not as frequent to make their immune system actually, most beneficial.
That's true. We find with cancer. We don't like to go too high on the dose. Anything above 4.5 I don't think is a good idea because then you're blocking the benefits of the opiate growth factor that Dr Zagon has described in the past. So he just may find a level that's good for him, and that's perfectly fine, but the pharmacokinetics usually indicated it should be a daily dose.
Linda Elsegood: Thank you. We'll just have one more quick break, and we'll be back in just a moment. The LDN research trust has an LDN Vimeo channel. I have interviewed over 550 LDN prescribers, researchers, pharmacists, and patients from around the world for many conditions. You can find the link from the LDN Research Trust website. If you'd like to be interviewed, sharing your experience, these email, linda@ldnrt.org
I look forward to hearing from you.
This show is sponsored by Paul Battle PA-C. He is a well-respected physician's assistant who takes a physiological approach for your optimal health using traditional and nontraditional treatments for autoimmune diseases and bone health using hormone replacement therapy and Low Dose Naltrexone. He has patients throughout Colorado and other states.
Visit www.pabattle.com or call 720 773-9041
Welcome back. I wonder if you could tell the people listening, Paul, the benefits of attending the LDN conferences, either in person or the live stream.
Paul Battle PA-C: Well, I've my personality. I think I've been to now 4 or 5 of them and the benefits certainly I get as a practitioner, but he can also apply as a patient or interested individual, is that you hear people from all over the world and the different applications that they're using it for. When I look at myself, I'm only one practitioner in my own experience, and I certainly haven't treated everything so it gives me a great advantage to listening to other speakers from anywhere around and what they're using it for, some of which I really never thought of. The psychiatrists are talking about how it might help depression and may help sexual function, for example.
I certainly never thought of that so I think the biggest advantage is you're seeing some of the top people around the world who've been using this for a while and all the different indications so that if you have a disease that has not been a common one that we told about LDN, like Multiple Sclerosis and Crohn's, but it's one of these more rare diseases, you then can say: " This might be an option for me." And then try to find the LDN prescriber to try it. It's such a low-risk treatment. It certainly would be worthwhile for a lot of different diseases. I think you've counted over 200 autoimmune diseases now that I think we had the experience. It is a lot of diseases to cover and it's great to hear from other people around their experiences.
Linda Elsegood: And this year we're getting case studies and some prerecorded presentations because there was so much information there that we wanted to present to everybody. It would have taken like two weeks just to sit there and watch. So you're limited to what you can do in three days, but there is going to be a lot of extra material there.
But the Q&A sessions I find amazing because not only do people in the room get to submit questions, but the people who are listening online as well, and there are some amazing questions that come up, and it's really interesting to see all these people that have been prescribing LDN for so long.
Some of the questions are very complex and answering them can be tricky. We had feedback last year from one doctor who said she thought the Q&A sessions were amazing, and she had all her questions answered. She had some questions answered that she would have asked herself if she thought of them and the whole thing was unbelievable. She said, because some of the questions that were asked, I think there are only a few where nobody on the panel knew the answer, and they just shook their heads and said, no, I don't know that one. So for her, that meant every time somebody answered a question, they didn't answer it to give an answer.
They answered it because it was a fact. So for her, that made the whole thing believable. So, that was good. But I always find that the conferences, the atmosphere is electric. You've got all these people that are so for LDN. It's just amazing, isn't it? The actual feeling in the room.
Paul Battle PA-C: Well, it is. It's a great comradery because it's still not a well-known treatment and if it doesn't have salespeople doesn't have commercials on TV.
So it's really been pretty much up to people like you, Linda, who's been one of the leaders in promoting LDN around the world and that's been my mission since it says my thumb's life is to speak at international conferences sponsored by you and sponsored by other organizations. I'm going to be speaking at the Age Medical Management conference in Florida in April about LDN and that's a whole different group of practitioners that will be hearing about LDN from myself. It's a nice, progressive movement that's helping thousands of people around the world in a very economical way. I just wish there was a way we can spread it a little bit more, but commercials are expensive, so it depends on all of us to be together.
That's where I feel a real brotherhood and sisterhood about LDN movement. We don't have a lot of help other than us volunteers or in your organization.
Linda Elsegood: And this is where the good thing is in sharing case studies and people getting together to discuss different ways of treating different conditions with LDN.
It's a good way of everybody learning. We do have another question has just come in and it's for Rheumatoid Arthritis. The question is, "How long should I take LDN to treat my Rheumatoid Arthritis?"
Paul Battle PA-C: Well, I'm not sure if he's asking how long should he take it before he notices a difference, or how long should he take it to treat it. I would stick with it at least three or four months before he would expect any dramatic results. Just give it that much time. If he does have a good result in the end, if you can get 70 or 80% improvement then he used to just stay on it the rest of his life. Rheumatoid Arthritis is not one that goes away. I would want to make sure though that it is Rheumatoid Arthritis. I had a patient in my clinic who was told by the rheumatologist she had Rheumatoid Arthritis, and so for 3 years, she's been thinking she had rheumatoid arthritis and I checked her for Lyme disease, through Armin labs, the German lab that we have come to our conferences, and she was positive for Lyme Arthritis. So the question is always make sure you have the right diagnosis also. But if he gets a good relief, Dr Bert Berkson in New Mexico has a great presentation on his patients with Rheumatoid Arthritis showing the serological markers improving dramatically on LDN. Many of the people were able to get rid of most of their rheumatoid medications of which a lot of them have side effects.
Linda Elsegood: Yes. We've had the lady Mary, who's been listening to the show, and she's talking about Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, and her daughter is 15 years old. She says: "Is it safe to take LDN at the same time as Gabapentin". Her daughter is currently on 2,700 milligrams a day, and she'd love to get her daughter off the Gabapentin but it's the only thing that takes the edge off the pain.
"Is it necessary to go gluten-free to find relief?" She said: "I know she should, and I'm gluten-free myself." But her daughter is not ready to accept. That's what she needs to do. "Are there any studies out there on the longterm effects of using LDN in adolescents?" She often searches for weeks and finding studies difficult.
What is the most normal dose for CRPS? She's 5,11 foot and weighs 140 pounds. Thank you for your help.
Paul Battle PA-C: Well, that's interesting she brings that up because I had that exact patient in my office about an hour ago. She's the CRPS patient on Gabapentin, and she's been trying to get off Gabapentine.
I believe the Gabapentin may have been helping her a little bit because Gabapentin can work with the LDN as it helps attenuate the nerve transmission. It's a class of drugs, like anti-seizure drugs, so she can certainly use them together. And is there any studies? There aren't any longterm studies on kids.
We just know that like Dr McCandless had kids on the LDN for years and there's never been any problem longterm. My son's been on it for 8 years without a problem. We have the OB-GYN doctors in Ireland who use the larger dose Naltrexone, 50 mg for infertility during pregnancy, and they have not had any problems.
So I really can't think of any other safer drug and I've been a PA for 35 years and a lot of different medicines that I prescribed over the years. I can't think of a safer drug then Naltrexone at 3 mg, 4.5. For her at that size, I think the 4.5 milligrams would be the appropriate dose, but I would titrate it up, and regardless of the gluten-free, I think when you have any kind of immune dysregulation gluten-free is a good idea. The gluten proteins are not ones that we have been designed to digest. Dr Tom O'Bryan, who comes to our conferences, is one of the experts on gluten, said to me last year that, even a person without gluten intolerance or the Celiac disease still has inflammatory changes in their intestinal track when they do biopsies 30 minutes later.
So my recommendations would be yes to have her do gluten-free. I know my son with his Crohn's took a while, but when he finally realized, this is his body, this is this future, now he's gluten-free, dairy-free, all that. So I would highly recommend that she go on a gluten-free diet.
Linda Elsegood: Appreciate what she's saying though.
Having a 15-year-old daughter who wants to socialize and go out and be part of the crowd, and then you can't go out for a pizza because you can't eat it. It's difficult, isn't it?
Paul Battle PA-C: You have to do a gluten-free crash. A lot of pizza parts and an Italian place have gluten-free pasta, gluten-free crust. I was just had that last night, as a matter of fact so it's workable now. It's much easier now for gluten-free meals and diet, and she can always bring your own food. That's what my son's done for years, is just pack your own food and have salads and things like that.
Linda Elsegood: Well, it's not very easy in England to find anywhere that is gluten-free.
You'll find that when you come over. When I went to travel and, we were hungry, and I just wanted to grab something. I went to the supermarket, and I said to the lady because I couldn't find it," Do you have a gluten-free section?" So she said: "Yes, but it's not very popular."
We're going to stop it and we've only got what's left on the shelf. And there were like six things, and it was like, then you're going to get rid of all the small section. You do have. I thought that was quite amazing.
Paul Battle PA-C: They need more education there because the Northern Europeans, as I understand it, have a little higher incidence than other population.
That is 1% of the population so I'm surprised at that. That's unfortunate.
Linda Elsegood: We took our grandson to the cinema last week, and we were looking at menus outside to see what was gluten-free. Many places don't have menus, and we were looking at TJ TG Fridays, and we went inside and they actually have a gluten-free menu. And it was like," Wow, a whole menu of gluten-free!" You can choose it. This is it! Take it or leave it! There was actually a choice. That was very good. I had a gluten-free burger and a gluten-free bun, and it was very tasty.
I was going to say to you, Paul and anybody else out there who's listening, if there are any conferences coming up where you're a speaker, or you're attending a conference, and LDN is going to be one of the topics, let us know. We actually have on our website now an events calendar for talks and lectures so that people can read and have that as a resource available.
So you would have to give me the details, Paul, and we'll put that on there in the event calendar.
Paul Battle PA-C: We can spread the word. I love doing it. If we can help a couple of hundred people. And mostly what I really like doing is teaching the practitioners because I figured each practitioner has 1,000, 2000 patients in his practice. You've helped that many thousands of people at least be exposed to the LDN, by teaching the practitioners that, I think has a big impact on l.
Linda Elsegood: And word of mouth. Taken hold, hasn't it? People are telling friends and social media. I must admit I didn't want to join Facebook. I don't know how many years ago now. Reluctantly thinking that suggest another thing I don't have time for, but I think we have about 18300 members now.
I'm on there and I'll take this opportunity to thank all the wonderful admin people that we have who answered all the questions and help and steer people and give them advice on how to find an LDN prescribing doctor. Without them, Facebook wouldn't continue, but the number of people that pass through, who come, who go, who take the information, go to their doctors and get LDN prescribed It's a wonderful tool.
Paul Battle PA-C: It would just have to educate more people, more practitioners. Some people may not be open to things that they're not trained in, and certainly the lack of a lot of clinical trials that do make the practitioners a little hesitant to prescribe it, but if you educate yourself, I've read a lot of it, all doctors papers and convinced that it's definitely a good thing for my patients.
I do certainly not hesitate to do that, but you do have to get educated, and that's what we're doing.
Linda Elsegood: Well, I'd like to thank you very much, Paul, for being with us today. We've just about run out of time and you've been amazing. So thank you. And I look forward to meeting you in September, but I might meet you when you come over later in the year.
Paul Battle PA-C: Yes in summer. That'd be great! Okay, Linda, I appreciate it and a really great time. I love helping out.
Linda Elsegood: Thank you very much.
Any questions or comments you may have, please Contact Us. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.
