LDN Video Interviews and Presentations

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Do you have LDN Experience you would like to share? (LDN; low dose naltrexone)

To book an appointment in October please click the link. form.ldnresearchtrust.org/jfs/radio-october-2022

 

 

Kate was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at age 7. Her diabetes and insulin needs were not changed on LDN. After treatment for Lyme disease with antibiotics and herbals, LDN gave Kate relief of her remaining symptoms. Finding LDN was like the magic bullet. Her Hashimoto's antibodies went up on LDN when the dose was too high. She is still working to find the right dose for her Hashimoto's symptoms, with headaches being her main side effect of a too-high dose.

 

 

Linda Elsegood: Welcome to the LDN radio show brought to you by the LDN Research Trust I'm your host, Linda Elsegood. I have an exciting lineup of guest speakers who are LDN experts in their field. We will be discussing low-dose naltrexone and its many uses in autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. Thank you for joining us.

Linda: Today we're joined by Kay from the United States who uses LDN for Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and fibromyalgia. Thank you for joining us today. Kaye. Thank you for having me. So could you tell us how long ago was it when you first got sick?

Kay: Honestly it was probably 40 years ago. I'm 58 now and when I completed high school, I started having symptoms of thyroid problems. So it was it was a very long time. So what did they do at that time, such a long while ago? They told me it was anxiety and they totally the doctor totally blew it off and they never did any sort of testing. They never did blood tests. They didn't do an ultrasound; they didn't do anything. Even though I had a constant sense of a lump in my throat and issues with sleeping and anxiety, and quite a number of issues that come with thyroid problems. And it wasn't until after I was married and I had two young children and I was working full-time that I just simply got to the point where I just felt like I couldn't function. And I went to the doctor. And he finally took it seriously. That was a different doctor, but unfortunately my labs for my thyroiditis all they ran was simply the TSH and they said, oh you're perfectly fine and they diagnosed me with fibromyalgia at that time. So I was kind of stuck with that diagnosis for a period of time as well, without any real good answers at that time.

And that kind of progressed, and it was probably another five years or so before anything more significant came out of that. I noticed one day a very large lump in my throat and went to the doctor, ended up with a surgeon and had my thyroid removed, and they diagnosed me as having Hashimoto's. I had two different types of growths on my thyroid and a very large cyst, and the surgeon actually said that it was the most diseased thyroid he had ever seen, and he was absolutely convinced it was cancerous. It turned out not to be, but it was clear why I had been so ill and having so much difficulty in functioning at that point. 

Linda: Wow. So what did they put you on once they removed the thyroid? 

Kay: They simply put me on just a T-4 only medicine and I felt absolutely terrible, and I literally thought that I was going to die. I thought the doctors were going to let me die. At that point my children were probably 14 and 16, and I simply just hoped and prayed that I would live long enough to see them graduate from high school. That that was how bad I felt.  I could I could hardly function. I was continuing to work full-time because I needed to, but I did not have any emotional capacity to deal with raising teenagers and having a husband and living life. It was just incredibly difficult and I just started googling and looking for answers, and thank goodness for the internet these days, right, because you know we can find stuff we couldn't find before So, I ended up at a doctor that was more holistically minded, and that doctor put me on Armour thyroid, so I had the T-3 and the T-4, and I started to feel like okay, I can live now; I can start to function. But I was still having a lot of issues, a lot of fibromyalgia pain.  I was having terrible insomnia. I was on multiple medicines to sleep. Dealing with a lot of anxiety, IBS, TMJ; I've got a laundry list of acronyms that I was dealing with. I came upon low-dose naltrexone myself, and I approached my doctor and asked her if she would prescribe it and she said yes, that she had a number of patients on it and she was happy to prescribe it.  So I kind of got lucky in getting a prescription for it. 

Linda: How did it affect you when you first started? 

Kay: When I first started taking it, really the only side effect I had was just vivid dreams. And I think I started it I 1.5 milligrams. That was fine. Did that for two weeks, bumped to 3 milligrams. That was fine, and did that for a couple weeks. Then when I bumped to 4.5 milligrams, I started to have some of the vivid dreams, and I bounced back and forth between 3 milligrams and 4.5 milligrams for a couple of weeks until I could just consistently stay at 4.5 milligrams.

Linda: And how long ago was that?  

Kay: That that was about 12 years ago. 

Linda: Well so you've been on LDN a long time.  

Kay: I have been quite a while, and I'm still on it. 

Linda: And do you have any thyroid issues now at all?  

Kay: I'm still dealing with some issues. About 4 years ago I ended up exiting a very toxic marriage, and doing that helped tremendously in reducing the amount of stress and anxiety in my life. I ended up changing to a different doctor, who really encouraged me to change my diet dramatically. So I eliminated all grains and all sugar, and that has helped tremendously. Reducing the stress, getting out of a toxic environment is huge. Just the emotional stress that happens takes a very physical toll on our bodies, and I think that often we underestimate the impact of it. And so for me, low dose naltrexone is part of a bigger package of things that I do to take care of myself. It wasn't the magic elixir that solved my whole life problems, because I had a number of things going on in my body, and a number of things going on in my life that needed additional changes to really create an impact.

Linda: What about the fibromyalgia pain? Is that under control? 

Kay: It is really under control. I'm struggling with a torn rotator cuff, and so another problem like that, it still throws your body off. As you age other things start to go awry as well. But no as far as fibromyalgia goes; no I don't really have any fibromyalgia pain. In fact three weeks ago, I went on a hiking trip with a friend and I had no pain and no stiffness and no soreness after hiking like 15 miles a day through fairly rugged terrain. 

Linda: So that speaks volumes, doesn't it? 

Kay: It does speak volumes.

Linda: Now I probably know the answer to this question because you spoke about diet, which was going to be one of my questions. But because your doctor was looking at your whole body, not just your symptoms, did she recommend supplements for you to take as well?

Kay: This doctor is a male; it's different. He also was willing to prescribe low dose naltrexone, and he knows what supplements I am on, and he has not necessarily recommended that I change them, or that I add to it. I am on a number of supplements.

Linda: Do you take probiotics?

Kay: I do take probiotics. I also take magnesium, Vitamin C, Vitamin D3 and K2. Those are kind of my staples.

Linda: Yes, when I ask doctors what supplements they recommend, probiotics is always up there as the top one, as is Vitamin D. You're doing remarkably well. I can't believe that somebody who must have been like 14 at the time, had all these problems, and they were just swept under the carpet. But so many people tell me that years ago, and not that many years ago either, that it's all in your mind; there's nothing wrong with you; it's all in your mind, or you're depressed and give you antidepressants rather than finding out why you've got the symptoms, finding the root cause. I'm just so pleased that you have managed now to get your life back on track where you feel you're in control and you can enjoy a good quality of life 

Kay: Honestly I feel better now than I did 20 years ago. I have I have no anxiety anymore; I used to have a lot of anxiety. I had issues with sleeping; I am off all of my sleeping meds; I only use melatonin now for sleep. I used to live on over-the-counter pain medicines, Tylenol, ibuprofen; I only take them very very rarely now; maybe once a month rather than three times a day or more. Just so many things that have resolved.

Linda: That's amazing, because all the medications that you can take, some of them are quite toxic and also all medications carry the risk of some side effects, and the more medicines you take, the higher the risk of getting side effects, and then you end up taking the magic pill to combat the side effects that the original pills have made. So to actually cleanse your body of all of these other medications that you're taking, even though you're 20 years older now, you said you felt better; your body is 20 years older, but you're still feeling better than you did 20 years ago. That's amazing, isn't it? Apart from your shoulders - hopefully that will heal soon. How did you hurt it?  

Kay: I had a bone spur that tore the supraspinatus, which caused too much stress on the infraspinatus and so that one also had a tear, and kind of the whole the whole shoulder system just went downhill. We're still working on that. 

Linda: So you just want to rest it.  Are you, as much as you can? 

Kay: Trying to rest it, and then also exercise it and strengthen it, it’s working well. 

Linda: Well that's it: if you don't use it completely, you lose it. Well thank you very much for sharing your story with us today, Kay. Very remarkable. You're an amazing lady. 

Kay: Oh thank you, thank you. Now I just wish everyone well who tries the low dose naltrexone. Just don't underestimate the impact of changing little things in your life, because lots of little things add up to significant differences.

Any questions or comments you may have please email me, Linda, at linda@ldnrt.org. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time stay safe and keep well.
 

 

 

Linda Elsegood: Welcome to the LDN radio show brought to you by the LDN Research Trust I'm your host, Linda Elsegood. I have an exciting lineup of guest speakers who are LDN experts in their field. We will be discussing low-dose naltrexone and its many uses in autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. Thank you for joining us.

Today I'm joined by Tracey from the US who initially took LDN for Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Thank you for joining us today, Tracey.

Tracey: Thank you for having me. 

Linda Elsegood: So could you tell us how easy was it to get your initial diagnosis of Hashimoto's?

Tracey: It actually was not easy. After I had my second child I could just tell, even though I had a child, the fatigue was extreme, hair falling out, inability to lose the baby weight, and just a lot of different things. So I went to a primary care. I did get tested and they did say I was hypothyroid, but it took until 3 years later until I went to a naturopath for them to actually test, which it's kind of crazy, because it's really just one test. They tested my antibodies and realized I had Hashimoto's. Because I got that diagnosis with the naturopath, I stuck with that office, because they seemed to be working better with me.

Linda Elsegood: Okay, so what was the length of time it took from when you had your child to having the actual diagnosis?

Tracey: I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism originally within six months, and they gave me Synthroid, which really did not help very much. I was still exhausted. Maybe it helped me about 15%, and I just kind of struggled along with that for about 3 years. I went to an endocrinologist. Same thing. They just said just stay on Synthroid. And finally, I moved, and I went to a naturopath. They did the test, realized it was Hashimoto's, and then also switched me from Synthroid to natural desiccated thyroid, which changed my life. It really did. I felt like I wasn't hypothyroid or Hashimoto's anymore. I still struggled a little later with some fatigue, but it helped me about 80%. Then, I guess it was around 9 years ago, my naturopath said there had been studies - the office really kept up with trends and studies - and they really researched a lot, which is another reason I like going to a naturopath; and they told me about low-dose naltrexone, LDN. I had not heard of it, and most people at that time, because it's a while ago, had not heard of it. He gave me some research. I did some of my own research, and I started taking it. I started taking it about five years into my hypothyroidism, so it was about a year after I got diagnosed with Hashimoto's. And I titered up, and it made a big difference within literally just two months. I know they say it can take longer, but for me I noticed within two months. 

Linda Elsegood: So it was like you say, a long while ago now, but did you have any side effects? Can you remember when you started? 

Tracey: Well I know some people take tiny tiny amounts and they titer up really slowly. I split one 4.5 mg pill into four, so I took a quarter of that for three or four days, and then a half for three or four days. I really didn't have any side effects. I think the first night I had a little insomnia, and the first three days some unique dreams. And that's really it. I was one of the lucky ones that I just didn't have too many side effects at all. I had energy within one or two weeks. I felt extra energy in the day, which was great, because fatigue was one of my bigger problems. So I never ever had really any bad side effects. 

Linda Elsegood: Wow. So, comparing your life now to how it was before you started LDN, how would you describe it? 

Tracey: It's just much better. Fatigue, as a lot of people know, can really be debilitating. It can just affect your whole day. I used to be exhausted from about one o'clock in the afternoon until five, and I would be in the middle of working, or when I was younger taking care of my kids and working, so I had to stop for three or four hours and sit down or lay down. I don't have to do that anymore. I've just been staying on the 4.5 all these years. Unfortunately, last year I got diagnosed with seronegative RA. At least that's what we think it is, and so I am looking at increasing that to the 6 mg because there's been studies since nine years ago, of using it for RA in a slightly higher dose. So I'm just starting to play around with that. 

Linda Elsegood: And how's it making you feel increasing the dose?

Tracey: I just started the 6 mg about two weeks ago. I don't notice a huge difference, but I do know my doctor told me that sometimes to change RA with anti-inflammatory reasons, it could take a month or two. So I'm just gonna keep going with that, because there are some other people with RA who I talked to that are doing really well on that dose. I only take it at night. I know some people dose twice a day, but I feel like my body needs the 18 hours to cycle through the whole LDN cycle.

Linda Elsegood: Okay, so are you following a regime from your naturopath, on diet and supplements as well? 

Tracey: Yes, I've been taking so many supplements for years, probably the typical ones that most people take, you know the turmeric and black seed oil, B vitamins, D, C, all of those. I also take resveratrol and glutathione just for liver cleansing, and I do I did the ALP diet when I got diagnosed with the seronegative RA. I started the AIP diet, and after the 30 day elimination, I moved into basically a paleo diet. No sugars, processed food, stay away from gluten. And that definitely helps me, about 20 to 25 percent the diet alone. I feel a combination between LDN, my supplements, my diet and I do take one other mild RA drug, first line drug hydroxychloroquine, so maybe between all of them they all work around 20 percent. I can get back to my normal self.

Linda Elsegood: How did you know you've got RA? Were you getting lots of joint pain? 

Tracey: Yes, it kind of came out of the blue. I do know that people that have one auto inflammatory disease are prone to get others. It really was out of the blue. One day for years, working out five, six times a week, hiking, yoga, etc, at the gym. Then I started to feel knee pain, and I thought it was from running too much, so I stopped running. And the knee pain didn't go away. Then I started to get wrist pain, and then thumb pain, elbow pain, shoulder pain, and that's when I knew this is not from exercising. And I was in denial for a month or two, and it was pretty excruciating, I'll say. It escalated very quickly, and from what I've heard from a lot of other people, that's actually common, unfortunately. So I started my process, going to my primary care, and they sent me to different doctors, and I finally landed at a rheumatologist. I'm one of those people where my blood work was perfect, my RA and lupus and all of those, ANA, were all negative. The only thing I had was high inflammatory markers, which show that you're inflamed and in pain, so you don't look like a crazy person. They just started examining my joints, and they call that seronegative RA. Some doctors call that inflammatory arthritis, with the hopes that it will go away, but next month will be a year or so.

Linda Elsegood: That's a long time isn't it? 

Tracey: Yeah; I don't I don't think it's going away. 

Linda Elsegood: Who is guiding you with your LDN? Your naturopath still? 

Tracey: The naturopath is still guiding me with my LDN and my supplements. Rheumatologists generally go right away to medication, pharmaceuticals, which I understand, but I take all my test results and all of the suggestions from my rheumatologist, and I go to my naturopath, and we discuss it, because he'll spend more time with me. We kind of agree on what the next step will be trying to take things conservatively. So that's how I landed on hydroxychloroquine, but also the diet and the supplements. Since nine ten years ago, there have now been studies for RA where they're using it in slightly higher doses, all the way up to 9 mg actually. He sent me all studies, and I thought I would go ahead and try that, and very slowly titer up. I like to do one thing at a time so I can see what's working. 

Linda Elsegood: Yes, it gets a bit confusing doesn't it, if you start too many things at the same time. 

Tracey: Right. I had started that hydroxychloroquine and thankfully had zero side effects, and I let that work a few months, and then then I started increasing the LDN. I've only been doing that about 12 days, so we'll see. Hopefully, in another month or two, because I think it will be gradual - I don't think I'll just wake up with no pain. I think it will be more gradual, looking at my pain level over a whole month versus just day to day. 

Linda Elsegood:  Yes, well the good news is I know of two rheumatologists that will actually prescribe LDN as a first-line treatment. The LDN Research Trust has been going over 18 years now, and the message is spreading well. It's not just naturopaths anymore. Conventional medicine doctors who find that their patients need extra help, and they've tried everything, and there isn't anything extra. Many of these doctors have looked outside the box to see what else there is out there that they can prescribe to help their patients. I know of neurologists, dermatologists, gastroenterologists, a lot of consultant doctors, who are interested in using LDN. When I started LDN in 2003 there weren't that many doctors prepared to even look at LDN. There were pockets of doctors all over. But it's a lot easier now for people to get LDN than it ever was before.  Are you still with the same naturopath that you…? 

Tracey: Yes I'm with the same naturopath for, I believe it's 10 or 11 years already. People can still see a rheumatologist or endocrinologist or whatever, but it's really nice to also have a functional doctor or naturopath to run things by them as well, or to find a doctor that mixes alternative, western, eastern medicine, and looks at all sides. A lot of the drugs for RA, multiple sclerosis, etc, Crohn's are pretty serious drugs with hefty side effects. I like that you know rheumatologists that will start with LDN first instead of running to methotrexate or these other low-dose chemo drugs.

Linda Elsegood:  Methotrexate, I know there are people who have said it's helped really well initially, but as you were saying, the side effects are high. They're very toxic drugs. 

Tracey: Very much even at low dose. 

Linda Elsegood:  If LDN if it's not going to do you any good it's not going to do any harm. It's not a toxic drug. It's safe to try without running the risks of getting awful side effects. So, what would you say to people who are skeptical about trying LDN, because there are still people out there who like alternative therapies and LDN is still a drug, and some people are like no, I don't want to take drugs, any drugs, doesn't matter that it's a low dose and it's not harmful, it's still a drug. What would you say to people from your experience about giving LDN a try? 

Tracey: Well, I had an excellent experience basically. No side effects. But I do know that some people need to titer up more slowly, which they can do. I just feel like the side effect profile for LDN is so minimal, and from what I know, and I have read quite a bit of studies, nothing, no side effects are permanent, and it's such a low percentage of people that continue on and the side effects don't go away for them. It has such a high success rate versus side effects. I just feel that they should research that, and I know occasionally somebody will say naltrexone, you know they'll look it up right away and they don't understand low dose naltrexone is different than naltrexone. Everybody absolutely has to know the two different situations, and just read the studies. I haven't found one study that says really anything negative. Like you said, the worst thing that will happen is three months later you find it didn't work for you. It helped me greatly with Hashimoto's, and it basically changed my daily life, so I'm hoping that will also change my RA effects as well. 

Linda Elsegood: Well amazing story, and thank you very much for having shared it with us today. 

Tracey: You are very welcome.

Linda Elsegood: Any questions or comments you may have please email me at Contact@ldnresearchtrust.org I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well. 

 

 

Asher Goldstein, MD - His experience with LDN as a Pain Specialist; LDN Radio Show 2022. (LDN; low dose naltrexone)

 

 

Linda: Welcome to the LDN radio show brought to you by the LDN Research Trust. I'm your host Linda Elsegood.  I have an exciting lineup of guest speakers who are LDN experts in their field. We will be discussing low dose naltrexone and its many uses in autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. Thank you for joining us.

Linda: Today we're joined by pharmacist Sherry Galvin from the Compounding Center in Leesburg, Virginia. Thank you for joining us today Sherry. 

Sherry: Oh, thank you Linda for having me. It's always a pleasure. 

Linda: So can you tell us what's been happening in your pharmacy. 

Sherry: Sure, yeah.  I guess the latest related to naltrexone or low dose naltrexone is we gave a lot of thought to what causes problems for patients taking low dose naltrexone, or really any chronic medication that they have to stay on long term, and the biggest thing that sort of jumped out at us was compliance. You know, making sure that the patient understands the importance of taking it daily.  That the patient can take it daily and starting to drill down into that we unpacked a few things that seem to be important to patients.  You know one specific to LDN was getting that dose right. The tapering up to find that magical dose, but not having so much that you start getting side effects.  So, finding the right dose was important.  Having the therapy be affordable was important, and convenience and sort of being easy to take were other things that patients would give us a lot of feedback on.  As compounding pharmacists, we like to think of ourselves as troubleshooters.  So from there we take that and sort of say okay, well, how can we help our patients make sure that they are compliant on this therapy? And we ended up developing what we call a flex dose tablet.  We have LDN flex dose tabs, and it allows the patient to taper their dose very easily without having to purchase multiple different strengths.  They can get one tablet that is scored four ways. It's very easy: you literally just touch on it and it'll snap in half, and you press down again it'll snap into quarters.  So, the doctor and the patient can work together to make sure that they're finding that magical dose, but not so much that they're getting side effects.  So it does allow some flexibility for the patient to go up or down, and again, without them having to purchase multiple different strengths.  Hopefully they're therefore making it affordable.  

The other piece of that is realizing -  and I know a lot of pharmacies do this - realizing that our patients need convenience. They don't want to remember it's time to call and get my prescription refilled, or even realizing they’re out of pills and don't have any refills.  Then that gap in in therapy happens. So we instituted what we call an auto-refill program, and the patients can self-enroll. It's not automatic. They choose to enroll or not, and we will reach out to them about a week to 10 days before their medication is due to run out, and say hey, we're gonna get this ready for you, we're gonna go ahead and ship it out to you, let us know if there's been any changes.  And we've had tremendous feedback from that.  It's just one less thing they have to think about in their lives.  

So that's kind of the latest things for us, the LDN flex dose tablets, and the auto refill program that goes along with it. Other than that, just sort of bouncing back from COVID-related things, and being thankful that we don't have people lined up out front waiting for a shipment of masks.  It was such a crazy time.  So it feels a little bit more normal in here now. 

Linda: So, when you collate your patient feedback, what has been the experience with side effects? What side effects have been reported to you if the dose has been too high?  

Sherry: Initially, the biggest complaint we get is sleep disturbance of some sort. They might say that they can't fall asleep, or that they're having such vivid dreams that they don't feel like they're getting quality sleep, and oftentimes the physician will just recommend that they either switch the dose to the morning, or that they back down a notch on their dose to see if that fixes the problem.  Occasionally we'll get a person tell us they'll have some GI side effects, but not very often. This drug is so well tolerated compared to other things on the market. We really don't get a lot of complaints about side effects, thankfully.  

Linda: And what about feedback of good results?  How long does it normally take a patient before they can say, "I noticed that it's working for me."  

Sherry: Yes. I sometimes will have a patient tell me after two to three weeks they'll start to notice some effects, but usually it's around two to three months that they'll say hmm, you know, looking back I realize my joints aren't as swollen or stiff.  Or, I am getting better rest, I can exercise a little bit more than I used to be able to, and you know I'm a big fan of a symptom diary,, for lack of a better term to call it.  Because a lot of times the changes are not miraculous, but when they start really documenting how they're feeling each day, and even putting a number to it, you know, scale of one to ten, how's my pain today; scale of one to ten how's my energy level today? It really gives you a little bit more information to compare today from two months ago, instead of just saying I'm not sure this is working. The other thing that we sometimes see happen is they'll think this drug is not doing too much, and they'll stop taking it. Then that's when they realize oh wow, it really was helping me.  I just wasn't tuned into how much I had improved.  So that's the other thing that we hear occasionally.  

Linda: And what do you say to patients when they say they don't think it's working for them?  How long should I  take it before I stop and say it's not for me?  

Sherry: We usually try to talk to them about their dose and just ask where are they?  What have they done?  Did they taper up?  Are they too high?  It seemed like everybody was going for that 4.5 milligrams per day for the longest time.  And I think now prescribers really do realize there's a milligram that works for everyone, and it's not all 4.5 milligrams. Have they overshot the dose that is needed for their condition?  We usually start there and talk to them about what dose they are on.  What dose have you tried?  How quickly did you go to this dose?  Those sorts of things. But we do try to encourage them to at least give it a four to six month trial before they say this drug hasn't helped.  Because we don't want them to abandon therapy too quickly. 

Linda: We did a survey several years ago now and found that LDN did something for most people, even if it was stopping the progression. If they were having a rapid progression, it had halted that. But there were a few patients that it had halted the progression but it hadn't actually helped with any symptom relief. And then in between 15 and 18 months when you would think they wouldn't notice anything else they then started getting symptom relief. That was quite an unusual thing. So we actually say a lot longer than you.  If you're okay taking it and you can afford to take it, we would always say take it for like 18 months before you give up. And exactly what you were saying when people say no definitely not working for me; no, I'm going to stop within two or three months they want to get back on it again because they had forgotten just how ill they felt previously.  Yes. Yes that's  always a thing isn't it. So in your practice, what would you say at the moment is the main condition that you're using LDN for?  

Sherry: I would say the main condition would be the sort of the grouping, and I don't mean to say they're the exact same thing, but the grouping of either chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia seems to be the biggest, but we do have a lot of patients who have various autoimmune conditions, whether that be rheumatoid or psoriatic arthritis, things along those lines. Irritable bowel, Crohn's, that group of people as well would probably be the next biggest category, if I could put them in a group. But it's amazing what we hear people using it for, always seems to be some new thing, although probably if you drill down to it, a lot of what we hear complaints about are somehow connected to either autoimmune or some kind of chronic inflammatory cause. 

Linda: And the patients with CFS, ME, fibromyalgia are usually the patients that have ultra-sensitivity to drugs, any drugs, and especially LDN.  So usually in my experience, those people don't even start on 0.5, they quite often have to start even lower and have to titrate it slowly, as their system gets used to it. Is that what you found in the pharmacy?  

Sherry: Yes, and a lot of times these patients also come to us with other sensitivities that make them very concerned about the medication, so  one of the things that we like to make sure is, we keep it simple, make sure that the tablet is as clean as it can be with no allergens in it, no fillers that would cause any sensitivities, because we do see that a lot with our patients. They have a lot of sensitivities. So yes, very low dose, ultra low dose if you want to call it that, and a slow taper.  That's the other thing:  a lot of times, especially more at the beginning when we were beginning to use this years ago,  we would see where the prescription would be written “Take one dose for a week and then increase for a week and then increase for a week”. We typically go a little bit longer, a little bit slower taper if you will. 

Linda: In your pharmacy, you were saying about being careful of fillers. etc. What different dosage forms do you compound? 

Sherry: We do a liquid dosage form for patients that need a very low dose. It can be done as a drop under the tongue, is what we normally recommend. We have immediate release tablets We have an immediate release flex dose tablets that I described earlier that can be broken into quarters. And we also do capsules. We still have some call for capsules.  There are patients who, for whatever reason, don't like the tablets. And where the oral dosage forms are fairly small, the tablets are approximately the size of a mini-M&M, and the capsules are about that size around, but maybe a quarter of an inch long. We try to keep them small, because we do have patients that will complain of trouble swallowing. 

Linda: You do a cream or….

Sherry: Sorry, I missed that.  Yes, for our derm patients we do topicals for different skin conditions. The other thing that we have recently been requested to make is topical formulations for  veterinary patients. Not so much for cats because they just lick everywhere, but dogs, if they have dermatitis or allergic reactions, we have found that topical LDN is very helpful. We also had a request for an LDN vaginal product, only once, but we have done that as well. 

Linda: What about eye drops and nasal spray?

Sherry: I have not had a request for that. We do a lot of different nasal sprays, but we have not done LDN in a nasal spray to my knowledge. Eye drops get a little bit tricky in the US, because of our regulations. Oftentimes when you're making a sterile product, which an eye drop would be a sterile product, the expiration dates are so short that it makes it almost  impossible to be a reasonable therapy - you can't have the patient come back every three days for a new bottle of eye drops - without a bunch of stability studies, which then shoots the cost of the preparation up so much the patient can't afford it. So eye drops do get a little sticky in terms of nothing having to do with the ingredient, more to do with the regulations. 

Linda: There are pharmacies that do eye drops for dry eye and Sjogren’s syndrome.  But I've also been told that the nasal spray helps with dry eye as well. 

Sherry: That is a very interesting concept, because there's just been a drug released on the commercial market in the US that is a nasal spray. Its indication is for dry eye. So a very interesting thought, yeah. We may have to talk to some of our ophthalmologists around the area, because we do have a lot of dry eye. All of us are in front of our computers way too long now,  right. Yeah, especially the last couple of years. So dry eye has really gone through the roof. Excellent tip. I'm gonna take that and talk to a couple of our ophthalmologists around the area. 

Linda: Well let me know how it gets on.  I do have dry eye, and I might have to have eye surgery, which is scaring me, but I would love to get hold of some nasal spray. So next time I'm in the US, I'll probably visit a doctor and see if I can have a prescription for dry eye. That would be here quite good. 

Sherry: Yes, yeah, that's a that's a very interesting thought. Yeah.

Linda: Even though it's not actually directly in your eye, when you squirt it up your nose or passage, of course it's getting up into the inside, isn't it? So it makes sense to me that it would potentially work quite well. 

Sherry: Yes, yep that does make sense. 

Linda: Well it's been wonderful speaking with you today Sherry, and I can't wait till next time. 

Sherry: Oh, thank you so much.  I hope you have a wonderful day and I appreciate being able to catch up with you.

Linda: Any questions or comments you may have please email me Linda Linda at ldnrt.org.  I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today we really appreciated your company until next time stay safe and keep well

 

 

The LDN 3: To Purchase with discounts before 1st September 2022 Go to ldnresearchtrust.org/ldn-book-3 for full details

 

 

Linda Elsegood: Welcome to the LDN radio show brought to you by the LDN Research Trust I'm your host, Linda Elsegood. I have an exciting lineup of guest speakers who are LDN experts in their field. We will be discussing low-dose naltrexone and its many uses in autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. Thank you for joining us.

Today we're joined by Kara from the United States who uses LDN for Multiple Sclerosis. Thank you for joining us today, Kara. 

Kara: Thank you for having me. 

Linda Elsegood: Can you tell us how far back was it when you first noticed an MS symptom, even if you didn't know it was a symptom? 

Kara: Oh my goodness, probably when I was first at university, my first little episodes began. I had UTIs that no one could explain why I kept getting them, and couldn't really get rid of them ever. And I had some issues with some muscle spasms, but very minor things. And then 11 years ago this month I had an episode of trigeminal neuralgia. I was driving; I had a brand-new car. It was my first day driving my brand-new car and I had taken my children to school and I was on my way to work, and I had to pull off on the side of the road because I almost passed out from the pain. I don't even know what I thought. I thought I had a tooth abscess or I thought maybe it was like a heart attack because I feel like women don't pay attention to those things and it can be jaw pain. So all this is going through my head, and I went to the ER, and they said there's nothing. It's not a cardiac issue. It's not this. It's not that. We don't know what it is. I saw a dentist the next day who thought it's neurologic, and that was the first time that this was even on my radar. I was just so stunned that that specific ridiculously bad pain was something related to a neurologic condition. I just didn't have any idea that that could happen. At that time I ended up having an MRI for diagnosis of my MS. When I had that MRI it actually showed that I had thyroid cancer at the same time. So in a very strange way MS has saved me from having a much worse cancer diagnosis because it was caught so early on that MRI. While I was dealing with that I had surgery, and went through some stuff. I began the LDN. 

I'm actually a lawyer who typically has represented doctors and hospitals and those sorts of things, so I have a lot of resources; and my husband is actually a physician as well. I started trying to educate myself as much as I could about the inflammatory process and what that actually can mean, and how that affects everything, from depression, to cancer, to MS, to I don't know… your mood. And with the LDN, I've actually not started a disease modifying therapy. It ended up that I had cancer three more times after that initial bout. Not with the thyroid because it was gone. And it just started this huge health journey for me. I never really had any health issues. I was never really super heavy. I was never really super troubled by anything. And I feel as though, looking back, what a gift that was. But being on the LDN has just made me sort of born again. I think everybody should be on it. I think it's wonderful. It has done so many good things for me. It has lowered my inflammatory markers. Our prior home was just filled with stairs and maybe three months after I started the LDN, maybe four months, I was at the top of my stairs and I realized I had just run up the stairs, which I had not physically been able to do in I don't even know how long. It was like I was a child and just forgot myself and did it. And it was in that moment that I realized that my balance was so much better. 

For me, my biggest things besides my inflammatory markers being somewhat beaten down from the LDN, my biggest two biggest things were fatigue and balance that I was helped most with the LDN. 

Linda Elsegood: If we go back to prior to your MS diagnosis, what kind of things were happening transiently at that time? 

Kara: That was when I was probably my most clueless about myself. I was litigating, so I had trials, and my work was incredibly consuming. And I had two children, and I was just fatigued beyond fatigued, and I couldn't understand what was wrong, because I've always slept well. I've always had good bedtime habits and that sort of stuff. I would get home from work and it would be 6:30 and I would put my pajamas on, and just be preoccupied with how soon can I get to bed. That's just bone tired fatigue that I liken it to jet lag. I felt like I was jet lagged, and I had just gotten off a red eye, and I had slept a solid eight, nine hours. There wasn't anything to explain that. The other thing was it was falling. I had a couple of falls. I broke my ankle very very badly. I fell down stairs, ironically. And it became apparent that I was having some sort of balance issue. I had my eyes checked because I thought maybe, maybe I'm just clumsy because I'm not seeing well or something, and everything checked out. It just really was something that I kept pushing to the side until I no longer could, and I had to really look in the mirror and say this isn't a normal thing to have happen. 

Linda Elsegood: And how long from having the problems with your UTIs to actually being diagnosed, how long did that take? 

Kara: I'm embarrassed to say 20 years. Really. It was a long journey, probably lengthened by the fact that I'm very stubborn, and I'm a bit of a control freak, and so for me to have something that I couldn't control, that I couldn't fix, that wasn't making any sense logically, it was very difficult to digest, and realize that I actually truly needed help. I figured that part out and I went to my neurologist, and I had looked up LDN, and I asked him to prescribe it. He was an older gentleman, but also vegan and into all the ancillary things we can do to be better, and he completely scoffed at me and he said, “You're already gluten-free, you're already eating this, you're already eating that, I guess you'll be completely cured if you begin this”. So I left without my LDN, and I went to my primary care physician and I printed up all these papers about LDN, and I walked in and I was ready to plead my case as to why I would like to start this, and he laughed and said he’s been prescribing that for 10 years. I was like, oh why didn't I come to you first. He was very knowledgeable and I feel incredibly lucky that not only did I find out about LDN, that I found a provider that was willing to work with me and educate me about titrating up, and working through that part of it. It has just been utterly a game changer for me truly. 

Linda Elsegood: So how long have you been taking LDN now?

Kara: Almost 11 years. Wow. Yeah a solid 10 and a half years. 

Linda Elsegood: So what was your fatigue like once you've been on LDN a while? 

Kara: Normal; it was a normal logical thing that if I were up late I would be tired, but if I were going to bed when I typically do and sleeping well, I felt great in the morning, and I didn't crash during the day. I don't really use caffeine, so for me it was just incredibly noticeable when I was dragging, that I was literally coming in the door, can't wait to get on my jammies and go to sleep. It was night and day difference. It literally was as though I had been sleep deprived for so long even though I wasn't. But that's how it felt. It felt as though I had been sleep deprived, walking around in a haze, and then the clouds lifted. I think the other thing is I think cognitively that contributes to brain fog. Just that sense of - I don't know when I was fatigued, I was preoccupied with it. I was thinking about it. I was thinking can I put my head down on my desk for 10 minutes nobody will know. Just things that are kooky when I look back. And I thought good lord, why didn't I say something before. Again, I think that's probably part of my personality, but boy it really, really, really helped me a lot. 

Linda Elsegood: What about UTIs? Are they still an issue?

Kara: Nope, zero. When I was having the UTIs, it wasn't as though I had poor personal hygiene, or I didn't understand the mechanisms through which those terribly unpleasant infections occur. I knew all of that, and what's ironic is that even before my diagnosis - my oldest is about to turn 24, and when I was pregnant with him I had UTIs so badly that I had to be on an antibiotic my entire pregnancy, and then six weeks postpartum. Looking back, it was the MS. But I didn't know where to put that. I just thought, oh how odd that unfortunately, I've now started getting UTIs again, and I'm pregnant. And I don't know why.

Linda Elsegood: It's funny you should say that. I had Epstein-Barr - we call it glandular fever - when I was 13, and I had like a year of school, I was really really ill. But when I was 17 I started to get UTIs. One after the other after the other, and I became very aware of my bladder, and I could feel if I was dehydrated. I needed to drink more to flush it out, but it was just awful. I mean one load of antibiotics after another after another. And so I understand where you're coming from. 

Kara: Well, I literally have water with me at all times, only because I think I have PTSD from having had so many UTI. I guzzle water constantly still.

Linda Elsegood: Yes. It's quite funny, I saw a nurse and she said, I always have beside me a pint glass. If you do pints. But I've always got this glass, and she wanted to know if I was drinking three pints a day. I probably drink five; I don't drink just three. I know that some people struggle, and she was saying tea and coffee don't count, it has to be water. 

Kara: You're the only other person on the planet that does drink enough water the same way. I feel almost defensive when I'm questioned about my water intake by a new healthcare provider or something and same thing, really, I drink way more than that and I'm very good. 

Linda Elsegood: The only thing is as I've got older I pay for it in the night. 

Kara: Me too. Same. 

Linda Elsegood: There isn't a magic cut-off time where you can drink all day, and then you can go all night, and I quite often wake up twice. 

Kara: I know I'm like a puppy, that you have to put my water away at a certain time. 

Linda Elsegood: But it's preferable to have in UTIs. 

Kara: Oh my gosh yeah. Because you're still peeing in the middle of the night with the UTI. 

Linda Elsegood: Exactly exactly. So when you started LDN way back, what dose did you start off with? Can you remember? 

Kara: Yes I started at 1.5mg. I was on that dose probably about two months. My only side effect that I've ever had from LDN, I had called them pregnancy dreams, just like very vivid dreams that I get if I'm pregnant, or if I take Benadryl. So not anything terrifying, just very vivid compared to normal dreaming. That lasted maybe three weeks; I don't even think a month. Then I titrated up to 3.0mg, and I was experimenting with different methods of getting the LDN. I had troches at one point. They're like the little gummy things. I then ended up just on the capsules, and I went to 4.5mg, and for me the 4.5mg has been an optimal dose, and I've had good luck with it, and great success. 

I ended up having colon cancer twice, and a couple other little things, and one surgery, and I came off of it briefly. I was so anxious to get back on it because I didn't know if I would start feeling poorly again, or how it would work, but I have to say that even having surgeries, in that post-operative time, that can be unpleasant. I haven't taken a narcotic this entire time, and to me, that's amazing. I don't know what my little pain receptors are doing. I do have pain, but I've been able to navigate around that, and I'm very, very grateful for that because I've not had to take a big break from the LDN due to any of other ancillary stuff going on. It's been such a pleasant thing, and as I said, I when I speak about it to others, I'm sure I look a little nutty because I'm like, "Oh my god it's just so good, you should try it, it's cheap, there's no side effects and who knows, it might work for you" I could be on a billboard. 

Linda Elsegood: That's fantastic. So, what would you say to other people who've got MS, who are a bit skeptical about taking LDN because they don't like drugs, any drugs? 

Kara: Yeah, I don't either. I am vaccinated and all that good stuff, but I definitely try to avoid taking unnecessary things, and for me, this is an immunomodulating therapy that - I don't care how healthy you are, everybody's immune system could use a little bit of fine tuning, I think, and I can't imagine not choosing to do everything I can to be as well as I can, and for me LDN fits in that category. Because it's an easy to use, effective drug that doesn't affect - I don't even know how to say this clearly - I feel like a lot of the drugs that people take, whether it's like a valium or something like that for muscle spasms, or stuff for fatigue or the rest of it, they all have a lot of side effects, and I feel like there's a lot of people that don't like to take drugs, that don't even count those as drugs, and they are. For me, LDN has made me way more cognizant of my immune system and what I can do to keep it healthy, and eating well. Actively chasing that goal of health every day is what I do, and I think it's silly to not have an open mind and give it a try. 

Linda Elsegood: Thank you very much for having shared your experience with us today. 

Kara: You're welcome. Thank you again for having me. 

Linda Elsegood: Any questions or comments you may have please email me at Contact@ldnresearchtrust.org I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well. 
 

 

 

This was an LDN Radio Show interview in 2022.

Linda Elsegood: Welcome to the LDN Radio Show, brought to you by the LDN Research Trust I'm your host, Linda Elsegood. I have an exciting lineup of guest speakers who are LDN experts in their field. We will be discussing low-dose naltrexone and its many uses in autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. Thank you for joining us.

Today we're joined by Dr Nasha Winters, who's also one of the LDN Research Trust Medical Advisors. Thank you for joining us today, Nasha.

Dr. Winters: Linda, it's so good to see you, and so good to be here with everybody else. I always enjoy these conversations.

Linda Elsegood: So, you're going to tell us about LDN and the future of healthcare.

Dr. Winters:  Yeah, you know, it's funny, because you and I, we've talked about a lot of different topics over our years together, though I’m going to spend the majority of our time today talking about where health care needs to go, and where LDN falls into that. I was actually looking back at my notes, I think this was back in 2016 or 2017 when I was at an LDN conference with you, where we were talking about why is this not part of just standard of care, this low-cost, highly-effective, very low if any adverse events, very multi-targeted in a lot of different disease conditions? It just still is a crazy thing for me to believe that this is still not included in standard of care, and that there are still so many naysayers out there in the medical environment. That is keeping people from having easy access to this very very supportive therapeutic intervention. So that being said, I think that is also just sort of an example of just how inherently flawed our medical systems are. And I think, depending on which side of the pond you live, that some people here in the United States think, “Oh wouldn't it be great to have a national healthcare system?” And then folks over in the UK look at us and say, “Wouldn't it be great to have access to more integrative functional medicine pieces?” And really, all of the systems globally are inherently flawed at this time, in the world around us.

And so, I just wanted to give maybe a little lay in the land to help people understand a few key things that have just happened in the last 50 years, to sort of highlight and stamp where we got off the tracks, and what it's going to take to bring us onto an entirely new path. This idea of health care, which I think is such a misnomer - it really is disease care, disease management - nothing about it is healthy or health-inducing or health-inspiring or health-creating. But we made a big shift after World War II. The whole planet had a collective experience with World War II, and as such, a lot of our resources got shifted of what we had access to and what we needed to sort of patch ourselves together. So you can appreciate why it came to be, but you can't appreciate that we're still staying in that mindset 50 years later. We moved into much more grain production post-World War II, just in order to keep up with the demand for more bread, which was deeply rationed during the world wars. Feed for animals, thanks to an increase in our concentrated animal feeding facilities, known as CAFOs here in the United States, to help feed the livestock like beef and pork. Specifically, we had the war on cancer which was waged in the United States in 1971, an act signed into life by President Nixon. It really was the first time we claimed the war on cancer, and 50 years later we're no further down the road with that. We started bringing glyphosate more out of a lab and into our world around us. Cigarette ads were only banned from TV 50 years. We finally banned them from TV, and yet they're still highly available to everybody, and a couple little warning labels on the packages has not changed our smoking rates much throughout the world. Berkeley Chemists in Berkeley California announced the first growth hormones that were later added to our food supply in 1971. We started using our first CT scans in London in 1971. We gave a Nobel prize to Earl Wilbur Sutherland Jr for discovering the mechanism of action of hormones, namely epinephrine, which started to really elucidate our stress response patterns. Yet we've not really incorporated that into medical practice. We started monocropping the world and therefore monocropping our microbiotic internal soil as well, which left us really with poor resilience to how we deal with disease management and disease prevention. And in the last five or six years we've even awarded Nobel prizes, very very high level Nobel prizes, to things like circadian rhythm biology, fasting and autophagy, and the microbiota and areas around the immune system, and yet ironically none of these amazing Nobel prize awarded individuals have their work adopted in the general standards of care.

So I give you that example that yeah, we're talking about it, but we're not doing anything about it, and it feels like I’m having the same conversation around things like low-dose naltrexone. So that's a piece I wanted just to kind of lay that framework to go wow, the problem. Right. What's the problem? So a little bit more before we talk about the solution. Take a breath Linda, and see if there's anything you want to add or further clarify from that whole soliloquy.

Linda Elsegood: I just found that really interesting about the facts that I didn't know.

Dr. Winters: Well, good, because I’m a little bit of a history buff, and so I really like to understand where we've come from so we can understand why we got to this place. But it also helps us create a new path forward. It's like we don't want to repeat history over and over again, so let's come up with something new. But just as I said in the beginning of our conversation, there's really nothing healthy about our current healthcare system, no matter where you live on the planet. It's a model based on disease management with no interest in prevention of the disease or creation of health and wellness. In fact, in the United States there's an organization called the CDC. Everyone's heard of it, the Center for Disease Control. And a few years ago, there was a secondary part of that title. It was the Center for Disease Control and Prevention. That last bit has conveniently fallen off their website, and you don't see that anymore, which is also very interesting and telling. And because I only know the stats from the United States off the top of my head, we're not too far behind any industrialized westernized country, or kind of neck and neck with regards to these numbers, so if you live in the UK or other parts of the EU, these probably apply to you as well. The United States is ranked 27th worldwide in terms of healthcare, and yet we have the most expensive healthcare system in the world, and we're also the country losing longevity while other countries are staying the same or improving their longevity. And a lot of our scientists and researchers out there are calling that loss of longevity “an era of despair”. The longevity is coming down because of people taking their own lives, so suicide, and opiate overdose, which starts to show you kind of this trend of just sort of a dissatisfaction of life, hiding or medicating the pain. And yet we don't have anything in our medical systems to really address those head-on.

The United States spends over 20 percent of its gross domestic product on healthcare, whereas back in 1971, seven percent. That is a giant jump. The average cost of a meal in a hospital, which is where we're trying to nourish the most vulnerable people, is a $1.37. Right now, the euro and the dollar are almost next to next, so it's about $1.50 maybe for the euro, but $1.37 is what we're trying to nourish people with. Back to health. And so the cardboard and distilled water that you could take would probably be healthier than what's being offered in most hospital systems, which is really unfortunate. These are just some things to keep in mind.

The other thing is cheap food leads to poor health, and there are food deserts all over the world that exist, that are keeping people in really underserved and disenfranchised communities even more oppressed in so many ways. And we have a terrible deficit of our nutrition education, and wellness education, in our medical schools, where less than 25 percent of normal medical schools are even offered an elective course in nutrition. We're out there trying to tell people how to nourish themselves, and yet we've had no training in the medical field to do as such.

So, a wellness ecosystem, that's what we have to start to think about. That's where we start to move into a solution. It goes above and beyond food, it goes above and beyond access to inexpensive highly effective therapies such as low dose naltrexone. And it needs to break away from this disease management model and move us away from sort of the three big drivers of this model, which are big pharma, big agriculture, and insurance. And that means even the insurance model we have here in the United States, or even the national health care systems in other parts of the world, the only way we're going to break these habits and change this trajectory, is by leaving those systems in the dust by completely getting out of them. There's a quote, I don't know if you, Linda, or any of your listeners know the British Indian philosopher and activist Satish Kumar. He's a really interesting voice, sort of like a hopeful future, with regards to health and well-being. And so I love this quote:

"Holistic thinking brings soil, soul ,and society together as three aspects of one big picture. This is the new trinity of our time. When we become single issue oriented, we believe that if only the world could achieve environmental sustainability, or if only everyone could practice spirituality, or if only we could establish social justice in the world, then everything would be sorted. But this kind of single issue obsession doesn't take us very far, because it's too narrow. All of these issues. all of these disparities. are interrelated.”

I really love that piece because it's going to take us moving out of the current trinity as a collective, to make a hopeful future for all of us. We need to reclaim our health. We need to reclaim our ecosystem. And we need to set a new structure.

One of the things I love to think about here is, wouldn't it be amazing, Linda, if we could all have basically insurance coverage or health care coverage; a community supported agriculture - we call them CAFOs here in the United States - wouldn't it be amazing if you basically were given a stipend for your food that comes from a local regional organic farmer and rancher orchardists, to nourish yourself and to nourish your family, instead of having to depend on some of those deserts -  food desert environments or fast food environments, or highly processed chemicalized food options, to feed the less financially stable of our communities. Wouldn't it just be amazing if that was just a standard of care, to have access to good quality food, which doesn't take that much to create. It just takes leaving the current system and the dependence on that current system.

For me, these ideas started to spread about 29 years ago, after my own terminal diagnosis, growing up impoverished, growing up in extreme trauma, growing up in an environment where I would have been considered one of those people that could never leave the system in which I was created, never leaving this sort of cycle of abuse and poverty and trauma and lack of education. Yet I managed to pull up my own bootstraps and do something different for myself. But not everybody can do that, or has the resources or the wherewithal to do that. This vision started percolating for me all those years ago because I was sick, because I was uninsured, because I was literally on my own, and on every level you could imagine, I started dreaming about, envisioning sketching about, making lists, exploring the world for almost the past three decades, to build a non-profit residential hospital and research institute For me, obviously the special focus is on oncology care, but also in prevention and wellness. So this Metabolic Terrain Institute of Health, that's the first of its kind, will be the template. The sort of pilot is being built in southeast Arizona in the United States, against all of the goliaths of big pharma, big ag, of insurance, because we're leaving all of those models behind, and we're literally changing the standard to cancer care and prevention, from the soil to the soul, and recasting cancer from a death sentence as it's seen today, into more of a manageable disease process. And you could put other diseases in the place of cancer. That could be diabetes, that could be Alzheimer's, that could be cardiovascular disease, whatever chronic disease du jour you want to put in that, that's what this campus is hoping to support. And so that trinity that Kumar talked about here is about bringing a convergence of talented like-minded individuals to the table, and systemizing a methodology that enhances patient outcomes, and prevents physician burnout. And scaling it by training physicians and patient advocates globally to get into a new narrative around health creation versus disease management. We've been spending the last couple of years making this come to fruition. Our physician reaches now over 88 positions globally, over 200 patient advocates globally, growing twice a year. We do courses ongoing, so that we can start to educate a new way of thinking around the world. Our goal before the doors of the hospital open is to have 500 physicians and a thousand patient advocates, and we're well on our way to meeting that piece here, because we know it's just the start we need right now. For instance, there are only 12 million oncologists in the world, and we have too many patients needing them. There's not enough. We have to get folks trained, and more and more doctors are leaving general family practice now, and going into specialties, which is kind of leaving the general public in trouble. We're trying to change that need, and then we're also simultaneously building and launching a data platform that collects our information to show that this new methodology, this new systems thinking, this new collective networking global environment, is in fact lowering healthcare costs and improving patient outcomes. To show that, because we hear well, there's no research in this well, there's no research because there's not a model to research. All right, we all have our n of ones and our little integrated practices, but when you put a bunch of us together and that data comes into a really robust platform, we can show in real time the dents we're making.

That vision of this hospital where folks can come and immerse themselves, and show themselves again how to live healthy on an unhealthy planet, cost share their supplements, cost share their imaging, costs share their off-label drugs costs, share their pharmaceuticals, their other interventions, that they need for their health to thrive. That makes a huge difference. I don't know what it what it is for you guys in the UK, but in the United States the average American spends $20,000 each year on healthcare. That's just their insurance premiums, their deductibles and the out of pockets that aren't covered by insurance. That's the average, which means there's a lot more people paying a lot more than that. And if you want a truly integrative innovative approach, you're going to be paying a heck of a lot more than that. So, we were imagining, can you imagine taking that 20 grand and putting it into something that's actually health creating versus disease mitigating? What a difference that could make in a very short period of time. And then also, this move that many people are hearing about, to sort of a decentralized financial structure where you're looking more at sort of tokens, and sort of the cyber or the crypto currencies and whatnot. There are massive moves happening right now that within five years, this decentralized financial model that shows extreme transparency, so you really do know the true cost of your health care. And where those funds are really going will reflect that probably 90% of all the money spent on health care today is actually a huge failure, and not doing anything to change people's healthcare status. The overhead to maintain the monster model that we have that is clearly ineffective, is needing to be deconstructed and put into a whole other financial structure. So that's happening.

Then, those folks saying that there's no research in this, well no one wants to fund trials like this, and this type of health care does not put everybody in the same room and give them all the same treatment and expect a miracle for each individual, just like Linda. You and I have seen patient after patient after patient for just LDN alone. Look at the variability of who needs to have their dose in the morning, who needs to start at a micro dose versus the 1.5 milligram, who does better, who only needs 1.5 milligrams to derive all the benefit, who has results within a few days, who takes a few months to get the results. That alone for that single agent shows the incredible diversity of our health population, that is not given any credence in our standard of care models of health today.

So this is what's so fun to me, of like re-envisioning what we're building outside of this, and what needs to happen to make this vision come alive. A lot of that as well means we have to build it from scratch. We have to build it from scratch so this non-profit, we're taking philanthropic monies, we're taking grants, we're taking research dollars to build this model. Because of the cost share, we're even able to keep those that have the means into a lower cost cash pay model. We won't be accepting insurance of any kind from anywhere. If people want to submit it to their insurance, if they still have standard of care, they're welcome to do that. But we're very confident that what we could offer would be far less expensive and far more valuable and far more impactful than anything they're currently experiencing. You probably hear this all the time, and experience it. Especially my folks, who are in national healthcare systems, when patients say to me, “Well, I can't afford that, that's out of pocket” and I’m thinking “Well what are you spending your money on, like where are your priorities.” Health is our wealth. Without health we have nothing, and for people like you and I, who've experienced the side of the pendulum where health was elusive to us, we really value the importance of turning over every stone and recognizing that to actually survive, we're going to have to leave the system and do a little bit more on our own. You and I are the weird unicorns, in that most people don't even know that's available to them, or are truly poorly resourced in a way that they can't get access to that. We know that this future healthcare model needs to create a new standard of care.

I know I covered a lot here, but I just want to start to paint a picture of what is being built. I’ve been told for 29 years this could never happen, and what I’ve seen happen in the last 10 years, and in particular in the last two, it's happening. And now that more and more people are coming together collectively into our network, and other little islands and pods and silos of this happening all over the planet, we're all finding coherence and resonance with knowing that we can't fix it, as I tried doing in the first 20 years of my practice. I can't fix the broken system. It exhausted me, it burned me, out it broke my heart, it made me physically ill, going in time and time and time again trying to fix a broken system. So I realized about a decade ago, I have to completely get out of it and build a new one. Luckily I keep finding sort of tribal members all over the planet, that are interested and curious enough and willing enough to do the work to do the same.

I was excited that we got to have this conversation today, because I feel like what you offer. and what the Trust offers, are opportunities, resources, awarenesses, that there are so much more than we're just being spoon-fed. These are the conversations that I hope are just the beginning for you and your listeners, to help us create collectively a new and hopeful healthcare future.

Linda Elsegood: If there are any medical professionals or patients out there who really want to back and support you, what can they do? How can they start the journey with you?

Dr. Winters: Well, definitely start by going over to https://mtih.org which is our non-profit hospital and education platform. That stands for Metabolic Terrain Institute of Health, mtih.org. You can get a ton of information there. There's even a little ‘how can I help’ button that shows like, you can help in donations, you can help in volunteering your expertise. We have a CEO who was the head of a billion dollar revenue non-profit hospital who's come to the table because he did that work for 26 years, and saw what a dead end it was. So he's jumping on board to help us with his expertise of how to build the new hospital system. For things like the regenerative agriculture environment, we have farmers and ranchers coming too, because our hospital is on a massive campus where 75 percent of the campus is a food forest. So we're able to nourish people. Our patients that come to this environment will be in the fields with the farmers, as well as in the kitchen with the chefs. But they're also going to be in the fields, in the kitchens, with the doctors and the nurses and the adjunct. The healing community folks are realizing what it takes to create health and prevent disease, and so those types of options are coming up. Then, if you are a physician who wants to learn more about this truly innovative methodology and systemic thinking model, of how you want to apply it your own patient practice, whether you work with cancer patients or not, it applies across the board. We offer courses twice a year. Our next one is September 2022 - we offer it in September and February of every year, and then we have the same thing for our patient advocates. If you don't have a medical degree but you also want to be part of this movement, we offer a patient advocacy training as well, which we're also bringing in ways to help you monetize it and create a self-care program for yourself, but also create a career path, because we need a lot of bodies, a lot of like-minded souls to make this mission come alive.

That's really amazing, absolutely fantastic, and so needed literally across the globe. I used to think it was just a problem in my own town in Colorado, and then I realized oh no, in the US; oh, and then I realized oh Canada, and then oh the UK. It's like it expands beyond that of all my world travels and all the conferences, and all the patients I consult with globally, and their health care providers globally, this is a global issue and it's going to take a global shift, and we need to do it together.

Linda Elsegood: We wish you every success, thank you

Dr. Winters: Thank you Linda, thank you for the opportunity to talk about my passion and purpose.

Any questions or comments you may have please email me at Contact@ldnresearchtrust.org I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciated your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.