LDN Social Media
Get connected with us on social networks
Linda Elsegood: Today my guest is Dr Melissa Coats from Arizona in the US. She is a naturopathic oncologist. Thank you for joining us today, Melissa.
Melissa Coats: Thank you for having me.
Linda Elsegood: Well, could you just give us an idea of your background, first of all, please?
Melissa Coats: Sure. Initially growing up, I always knew I wanted to be a physician, I think, or in medicine. And when I went to school far away from home in Lynchburg, Virginia at Randolph-Macon Woman's College I focused on biology. And then after that, I didn't exactly know what part of medicine I wanted to do. So I decided to get a Masters in bioethics while I was deciding, and when I discovered bioethics, I stumbled across naturopathic medicine. Once I read the philosophy and what it was all about, I knew that was where I needed to be. Once I finished my Masters at Midwestern University, I went on to the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine, which was in Tempe, Arizona. And I didn't even realize it was in my native state. And so I learned all about naturopathic medicine and went on to school there, and ever since, here I am.
Linda Elsegood: Wow. And when were you first introduced to LDN?
Melissa Coats: I believe my first introduction was through my mentor and colleague, Dr Daniel Rubin. He had co-written an article about low dose naltrexone, I think back in 2006, for its use in pancreatic cancer. And Dr Berkson who uses it a lot at his clinic, where he does a lot of hepatitis C treatment, also was very interesting to me So I learned a lot from both of them. And from then on, I've been doing more and more research and just using it in a multitude of ways with different types of things beyond cancer. But cancer is obviously one of the bigger ones that we focus on here at our clinic.
Linda Elsegood: Could you give us an idea of your protocols for treating cancer patients, and which cancers you've actually treated with LDN?
Melissa Coats: Probably one of the bigger ones we typically put people on it for are those who have breast and colon and pancreatic cancer. Those are some that we definitely do, but we know there's some efficacy with ovarian and neuroblastoma and glioblastoma and even squamous cell carcinomas. Pretty much because of the natural killer cell and the immune stimulation that it gives.
We've found it is a very nice adjunctive thing to add on to most treatment protocols, so we utilize it quite often, usually starting with a lower dose. Depending on the sensitivity of the patient, maybe 1.5 all the way up to 4.5 milligrams, depending on what's going on and making sure that we're not conflicting with any pain medication use, of course, if the patient's had surgery or things like that.
We also, me particularly in the clinic, like to use it for other things as well. One of my very first patients actually wasn’t an oncology patient that I utilized it in - it was a person who had undiagnosed celiac disease for 25 years, and her gastrointestinal system was just a giant mess, and she was miserable. It was one of the things that I decided to introduce to a kind of calm her autoimmune issues that were going on, including her thyroid. And it really seemed to calm her gut. And she said it was like a miracle to her, and we even tested going off of it briefly to see if that was truly what was happening. And it was definitely the low dose naltrexone that was helping calm things for her. And so that was one of my first introductions to the power of it. And from then on, I've been utilizing it in many ways since
Linda Elsegood: What are the therapies you use alongside LDN?
Melissa Coats: Currently, here in Arizona, we have the ability to give IV nutrients, so we use IV alpha-lipoic acid alongside the LDN. Sometimes it's vitamin C, IV. We utilize other supplements, as well, to focus on different parts of what the person needs as far as support if they're during chemotherapy or radiation or other treatments who may have anything going on.
We also utilize sometimes another natural killer cell stimulator, which is mistletoe, but we only give that in a sub Q injection versus IV here in Arizona. There's often a combination of things that we utilize with LDN to help the patient get the best for their immune system and whatever other issues they're having.
...
Melissa Coats: Sometimes, most of those patients are already on LDN, so it's definitely a good part of the mix. We definitely like to make a treatment plan very individualized to each patient, and so there's often quite a multitude of things going on at once, whether it's ... LDN, IVs, a diet plan, whatever it is. We like to bring it all together for them so that they can feel their best.
Linda Elsegood: And you mentioned a diet plan there. Of course, with cancer, sugar. Is a no, no. What kind of a diet do you suggest patients follow?
Melissa Coats: A lot of our suggestions as far as diet are either to focus on a very anti-inflammatory or a Mediterranean style diet. The ketogenic diet is obviously big news right now. So that is definitely utilized depending on if the patient's in a good place to do that or not. If they're in a very cachectic state or their weight is very low, we may or may not utilize that, but if they're in a place where it looks like they would benefit greatly from the anti-inflammatory effect of being on the ketogenic diet, we definitely introduce that. Definitely a big part of our consults with patients is spending a lot of time on the diet because we believe food is one of the greatest medicines you can put in your body if you're utilizing it properly.
Linda Elsegood: And what's the age range of the patients that you treat?
Melissa Coats: We have little tiny babies all the way up to, I think one of our patients right now that we have that I also believe is on LDN is 89. So we have quite the age range going on here in our clinic. I would say the majority of my patients range in their mid-twenties to like in the seventies and eighties. So we have quite the group.
Linda Elsegood: And you were saying that you treated the lady with celiac disease. Have you treated any other autoimmune diseases?
Melissa Coats: Yes. Of the ones that I've seen some benefit, a few patients who have lupus who've seen some benefit; in rheumatoid arthritis we have definitely seen some help in calming some of that; a lot of Crohn's and colitis. I definitely really see a lot of benefit with LDN when you bring in GI issues that are very inflammatory and sometimes immune-mediated. So it's definitely been helpful. I also have utilized it quite often with Hashimoto's thyroiditis to kind of calm the thyroid antibodies, and they seem to note that their thyroid works more efficiently and we see better numbers on labs when they're on the LDN, and less need for medication, which is nice.
Linda Elsegood: So the patients that you know are on LDN for thyroid, do you taper up slowly? How, what is your protocol for that?
Melissa Coats: The patients mostly have been able to start at three milligrams, and I haven't really had to taper them per se, up or down. Sometimes we just watch the numbers and kind of see how they're feeling, and I may start them at three and just have them check-in with me about how they are feeling, whether that's too much, too little? It hasn't seemed to cause any major side effects, which is why I love using it so much because most people have a great response.
I forgot about one case that I specifically wanted to tell you about. I have two patients that have autoimmune hepatitis that has been very difficult for them to wean off their steroids. And we have been utilizing LDN probably for the last year and their numbers as far as their liver markers, their AST and ALT have definitely decreased significantly since starting the low dose naltrexone, and I have finally been able to taper to a much lower dose of their steroids, which is wonderful because they hadn’t gotten to a low dose before without the LDN. And we found that using the LDN has made them much more successful and they're very excited about that. The thyroid becomes more efficient with the use of the LDN. They definitely need less medication, which is wonderful. So I usually check thyroid labs when I'm changing things up, every four to six weeks. And so definitely I've had many patients have to reduce their dose because of the LDN, which has been great.
Linda Elsegood: So when a patient comes to see you, let's just say a cancer patient, how would you go about putting that plan together? What is the procedure you follow?
Melissa Coats: When we meet, we initially have at least an hour consultation. We have really extensive forms that they fill out ahead of time, so that I have a really good understanding of their history, and we try to request records so we’re already in the know of what's going on so that we can spend a lot of time talking with each other about goals and where they want to begin.
While we're in consult, we actually type up a protocol so that they leave with a piece of paper that says what labs they are going to get., what treatment plans and treatment options we are interested in doing, whether that's IV or starting low dose naltrexone or some supplements. And then we make sure that there's a clear understanding if we need to check-in and get a diet diary, or what changes should be made immediately.
So they leave with that protocol in their hands so that they feel like not only did we meet and get a good understanding of what's going on, but we have a plan in action that first day, which I think is very powerful in making a patient feel empowered about taking control of their health. And we also kind of keep updating that protocol each time we meet so that if a supplement doesn't work out or we need to add something, they know exactly what's going on and can keep track, which is helpful to everybody involved.
Linda Elsegood: I was speaking to Dr Berkson, and he taught me that alpha-lipoic acid is to be taken intravenously, that it wasn't as effective in tablet form. And the other day somebody was telling me that no, the tablet form works just as well as the intravenous. So I'm now confused. Has it changed? What's your take on it? Exactly.
Melissa Coats: My understanding is with IVs, you're bypassing the GI and you're getting full absorption; whereas orally you'd have to take a lot more, and obviously the doses are different. The IV amount we go up to is about 600 milligrams, whereas orally we're giving someone up to 1200 milligrams a day. Typically we use both, so when they're not here, they're on it orally. And then when they're in an office, they don't need to take their oral dose that day because they're getting the IV version of it But from a strengths perspective, and I'll have to check the latest studies, I guess now that you say that, my understanding from Dr Berkson and his protocol that I've been utilizing for a number of years now, that the IV seems to be pretty vital.
Linda Elsegood: That's what he told me, so I've just wanted to check that.
Melissa Coats: We haven't changed our protocols yet as far as I know. When I can't get numbers to move from oral dosages of things, I definitely bring in the IV protocols, and that seems to make a difference.
Linda Elsegood: And what about vitamin C taken intravenously? Is that really effective that way?
Melissa Coats: For absorption issues and things like that? I would say yes, because, from the standpoint of orally, most people can't handle maybe roughly above six to eight grams because it causes a lot of GI distress, even if it's buffered, whereas IV we give people up to a hundred grams, which is way past what anyone could take orally. We know that that creates a different type of stress on the cells, that it can help with reducing vascular endothelial growth factor and other inflammatory markers related to cancer.
Linda Elsegood: And if you read about vitamin C and it talks about water-soluble fat-soluble and it's flushing out of your system if you take too much, or you take too much intravenously.
Melissa Coats: It’s pretty much individualized as well. Some people can't handle certain doses. There are some patients that feel great at 40 grams, and others that can take a hundred grams and feel just as great. So it kinda depends on the person. There are tests to check also whether their plasma level of vitamin C, so that's something that we have utilized in the past.
And then based on our clinical knowledge from using it for a long time. We have kind of figured out where people tend to do well. Yes, it doesn't stay in you forever. It is leaving the body, and there's a lot that's going through the kidneys and being voided out, but for the time that it is in the body and doing what it's doing to the cells.
And if you come on a fairly regular basis, you are creating an environment that is, less available for cancer to grow. So you're creating an environment that is not what they will utilize. So that's why we use it so often. We also use alpha-lipoic acid because it's a powerful antioxidant. And then some of the other nutrients that are out there too.
Linda Elsegood: A few years ago I had an operation, and as I came to I was in quite a bit of pain, and they gave me intravenous paracetamol, and I was thinking to myself, the pain was quite bad, and I was wondering why they are giving me paracetamol? You know, that's not gonna do any good. And it worked. I was absolutely pieced. I thought, paracetamol isn't very strong, but apparently, it's stronger if it's taken intravenously, as it goes through the metabolism by the liver. It just goes right in. I was surprised at that.
So, vitamin C, minerals, and supplements. Do you have any favourite ones? I mean, obviously, it's individually tailored to the person. But on the whole, what would you say?
Melissa Coats: We utilize a lot in the oncology world, things that basically kinda change the terrain for cancers. So one of the things that I've utilized a lot is modified citrus pectin, which targets galectin-3, and by lowering that, you allow protection of good, healthy cells and keep other tissues healthy. So, for example, with a woman with breast cancer in one breast, you want to try and protect the other breast. So that we found that this can be helpful. And if she's going to be having surgery or a biopsy, having this on board can kind of help prevent the spread of the other rogue cells. In studies, that's what's been confirmed. So it's something that we've utilized a lot.
And I use some mushrooms, a whole bunch of different ones. Coriolis mushroom, to help your white blood cells keep your immune system healthy. So that's a big one that we use. And then things that target vascular endothelial growth factor, which is basically kind of a signal for angiogenesis or blood vessels to grow around a tumour.
And so there are numerous things that target angiogenesis. One is a magnolia extract. There are other herbs as well that do that. So obviously vitamin C. And then there's some thought that if you stimulate things like the natural killer cell function with low dose naltrexone, that you may be inhibiting some of those other pathways in a roundabout way. So that's why it's a of things. Quercetin, resveratrol; and curcumin is a huge one, which is the active constituent found in turmeric. There's a lot. And that's why we constantly are trying to throw different curveballs at the immune system to help people fight cancer. And so that's why we utilize so many different things, because if you just use one agent, obviously the immune system and the cancer is going to figure that way around it. And so you want to make sure that we help.
Linda Elsegood: Do probiotics play a role?
Melissa Coats: Oh, yes, definitely. The GI health and having a really good balanced flora of good bugs in the body is definitely key.
When I'm not focusing on cancer, I really do believe in the gut-brain connection. If your gut is unhealthy, so will your brain be unhealthy. And so making sure that you have good flora can definitely help people's mood and their anxiety and stress responses. It's pretty amazing. So I love probiotics and what they can do.
Linda Elsegood: I was looking at probiotics, and you start off with what I would call a reasonably priced product. So I was reading the labels - this one has that many million and this one has got different strains in it. I was just lost. I didn't know what it was I should be behind. Which was the best? Is it a case of the more money you spend, the better the product you're getting, or should you be looking deeper than just the price you're paying?
Melissa Coats: I think it's probably a combination of both. Hopefully, the more expensive products are good. If not, then they're just gouging you. But the main thing for us is it's good to get a variety of strains. So not just acidophilus always. You want to make sure you're getting lactobacillus and bifidobacterium, and you want multiple strains of those types of bacteria depending on what you're trying to work with, with the gut. Also, we're a big fan of billions versus millions because you don't know how much is actually lost or killed off into your absorption and what your stomach acid is doing to those bugs. Depending on how they're put into a capsule, there's always some that aren't going to make it. So the more, the merrier, hoping that you'll be colonizing the gut with some good stuff. I always tell people to rotate brands, and also research the brand and make sure that however they have them, they can prove that when they get their product on the shelf, that those bugs are still alive in there if they're supposed to be, and not been heat shocked in transit and are no longer anything other than a pill filled with nothing. So it may be that that is cost-prohibitive, but normally most of the products that are pretty good are similar in price.
I think that there's some that are really high in the billions that are intensive protocols that you may only be doing for a week or two, that may be more costly. It just kinda depends, which is why we recommend you usually see someone who has done the research versus just buying a product at the grocery store that's just been sitting on the shelf for you have no idea how long. And so it's good to kind of find that out before you spend the money and then are disappointed.
Oh, vitamin D is another one. Yes, it also depends on the person's absorption. Sometimes I've switched patients from a capsule form to a liquid form and have them hold it under their tongue because they didn't seem to be getting anything from their capsule. And that could be a reflection of the way they absorb through their GI, or if it needs to be more sublingual in their case. And usually, the dose probably needs to be higher than they thought it needed to be. Based on our labs, if someone's our range - here for example, one of the labs we use the range is 30 to 100, and we like to see people between 60 and 80. And so that may take them taking 10,000 units a day for a while, and then they may be able to ramp back, or they may have to take more than that depending on their absorption status. But you kind of play with what seems to work for them. And yeah, there's a lot of different brands on the market.
Linda Elsegood: What about omega-3s?
Melissa Coats: Yes. The key thing with omega-3s for me is making sure that it's a very pure product, that it's not from fish that are in a farm lot being fed dog food or something horrible like that. They need to be deep-sea coldwater fish, hopefully sustainably raised. And then the capsules themselves, when you're looking at it, you want to make sure that they're fresh. So hopefully the product has some sort of date on it that tells you that those haven't been sitting and becoming rancid.
The key is to look at the EPA and DHA content. If it's fish oil it'll typically show you EPA and DHA, and you want that to add up to over a thousand milligrams within just one or two capsules versus having to take ten capsules to get there because otherwise, you're not getting the benefit of the anti-inflammatory effect, the good healthy cholesterol effect and everything else that goes along with it.
Linda Elsegood: I was talking to a nutritionist a few years ago now. And she was saying if you had an inferior product, they usually have vitamin A in them. And the more tablets you take, the more vitamin A you're taking and you can overdose on vitamin A.
Melissa Coats: Yeah, you've really got to make sure it's a pure product. That could be bad. And that will give you a nasty headache and make you not feel good at all. But the one I believe that we carry here, as far as I know, is just really focused on the omegas aspect of it.
Linda Elsegood: Yes. And what about people who are vegans? Can you take flaxseed oil to do the same?
Melissa Coats: You could do flax or chia seeds. Also just eating healthy oils like avocado oil, olive oil, coconut oil. You know, there's a lot of different ways to get in. Omega fatty acids that do not necessarily require a fish or krill.
Linda Elsegood: I was reading the other day an article on coconut oil where they were saying that previous research was incorrect and it wasn't as healthy as they made out. What is your stance on that?
Melissa Coats: I don't think it's the healthiest oil, but definitely, but I still see some benefit in using it, particularly the medium-chain triglycerides that come from coconut oil. Or we use MCT oil sometimes instead of just coconut oil. But if someone is just occasionally throwing a little bit of coconut oil into their smoothie, I haven't seen it detrimentally affect them and I've seen some good studies with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research, that it helps the brain. So the MCT from coconut oil is helpful.
I think it's also a matter of where you're getting it. If it's this big tub of coconut oil from a big box store, that may not be great versus actually getting small organic coconut oil, which might be a better option. With the ketogenic diet, they often mentioned using MCT oil does help supplement your fat content. And that's been a very pure product, and it usually doesn't have a coconut taste, but it's from coconuts. So people can use that if they don't like the coconut flavour.
And it's nice because if you need to gain weight, it's a good way to add a hundred calories or more. Most people are not looking for that, but sometimes in the oncology world, we need to help people get more out of their meals. And because that doesn't have a taste like coconut oil, it's helpful. I don't think coconut oil is horrible, but I definitely don't recommend it to be someone's only source of fat for sure. And definitely, it is not an oil that cooks well at high heat. It will actually oxidize it and make it an unhealthy thing. So we usually recommend people use avocado oil for that.
Linda Elsegood: Wonderful. The half an hour is up. It's gone very quickly. This was Dr Melissa coats and thank you so much. Before we go, can you tell people how they can contact you?
Melissa Coats: Yes. You can contact us through our website at www.listenandcare.com, or you can give us a call at (480) 990-1111. And you can even have a 10-minute free consultation if you like.
Linda Elsegood: Oh wow, so we have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Melissa Coats: Thank you so much for having me.
Linda Elsegood: This show is sponsored by Dickson Chemist, experts in LDN and associated treatments in the UK. Dickson Chemist, the most cost-effective for LDN in all forms within the UK and Europe. They are maintaining safety standards far in excess of what is required. Why would you choose to get your LDN from anywhere else? Call 0800 027 6910 today to speak to the LDN experts.
Any questions or comments you may have, please Contact Us on our website at https://ldnresearchtrust.org/contact_us.
I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciate your company. Until next time, stay safe and keep well.